Supervisor Concerns for PhD: Get Guidance & Publish Papers

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around concerns regarding the guidance and support received by a PhD student in particle physics, particularly in relation to publishing papers and developing a thesis. Participants share their experiences and perspectives on the expectations and challenges faced during the PhD process.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses concern about being in the 6th year of their PhD without clear guidance on publishing or a defined research project.
  • Another participant questions how someone could be in their 6th year without having published, suggesting a lack of direction or project focus.
  • Some participants suggest that the student should actively ask their supervisor for guidance and clarification on their research questions.
  • Concerns are raised about the implications of not having a specific project assigned by the advisor, with some suggesting that this is unusual for someone at this stage.
  • Participants share statistics and personal anecdotes about the percentage of PhD students who fail to complete their degrees or produce acceptable work.
  • There is discussion about the potential for students to leave with a master's degree instead of a PhD, and the implications of this on their future careers.
  • Some participants reflect on the nature of graduate school, noting that it can often involve vague expectations and unclear guidance.
  • One participant mentions that the advisor should ideally provide a list of possible projects for the student to consider, especially if their original research idea has already been explored.
  • There are comments on the broader implications of the PhD process, including the experiences of those who do not complete their degrees and the potential reasons behind it.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of views, with some agreeing on the inadequacy of the guidance provided by the advisor, while others question the student's approach and readiness. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the best course of action for the student and the expectations of PhD programs.

Contextual Notes

Some participants mention the challenges of balancing coursework, teaching responsibilities, and research, which may impact the student's progress. There are also references to varying experiences based on the institution and the advisor's level of experience.

romeo6
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I am in my 6th year of a phd and am concerned that I am not receiving the kind of guidance that I need to publish and write a thesis.

I am interested in particle physics. I meet with my supervisor once a week, and tell him about the papers I've been reading and that's about it. I pretty much decide which papers to read and I am at a loss on how to publish something by myself. The kind of papers I read I can just about understand, but could never create something like that by myself, but the impression I get is that's what's expected of me before I am ready to write my dissertation.

My supervisor says he wants me to write 2 to 3 letters and 1 or 2 papers (15 pages) and that will be sufficient to start writing a dissertation, but I don't even know what I'm going to do, or how to do it. (i know what I'm interested in, but can't think of anything original to add).

What kind of supervision did anyone else get for their PhD's?
 
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How can be in your 6th year of phd and just now starting publishing a paper?

What about your thesis for undergrad?

I just finished undergrad and have 4 publications...
 
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Well since you go in and tell him about your papers all the time, why don't you switch it up and ASK QUESTIONS? It's your job to get your own questions answered. He's not going to know what you need help in, unless it's fairly obvious. You need to ask the questions.
 
ljackson said:
How can be in your 6th year of phd and just now starting publishing a paper?

What is scarier is that he does not seem to have a project at all... OP what have you been doing for the last 4 years (assuming you did coursework the first two)?? Is this a university in the US?
 
What percentage of all PhD students fail to generate an acceptable work before time's up?
 
hmmm...is this advice, or rip into a guy when he's already pretty low?
My school has challenging qualifying exams and only 20% pass 1st time.
I didn't take until my 3rd year and didnt finish up til 4th year so only began research full time in 5th yr.

Am international and TA so had to take FULL schedule of classes (now totalling over 90hrs) to maintain visa status until I passed qualifying exams, also had to teach/grade, and do extra private tuition as salary is barely above US poverty level...very bad salary for us grad schools.
 
romeo6 said:
hmmm...is this advice, or rip into a guy when he's already pretty low?

I apologize if you took my comment this way. It is just very surprising to hear about someone being a 6th year PhD student without a specific project. I have heard the average is 5-7 for completion, but I think in general coursework is done within 2 or 3 years.
 
I just looked up my university. 80 PhD math students, with about 6 to 10 earning their PhD's per year. So does that mean about half of all PhD students walk out with nothing?
 
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A lot of Ph.D. students walk out with an MS. :smile:

I have to agree with the general sentiment though... this advisor has really let the OP down. At the six year mark, you should be up to your neck in a project... perhaps questioning if it will ever lead to a thesis, but you should have more work than you have hours in the day.
 
  • #10
TMFKAN64 said:
A lot of Ph.D. students walk out with an MS. :smile:.

So sad. Half of all PhD students with several years wasted, having earned nothing at all. I remember one of my high school teachers, quite mature-looking with all grey-hair. He said that he was a first year teacher because he just was declined his PhD after many years of work.
 
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  • #11
There is still a lot of good to be said about grad school. You will learn a lot, even if you don't manage to complete a degree.
 
  • #12
You haven't been assigned any semblance of a research project? I would expect you to have been assigned a project by your advisor immediately when you begin your dissertation research. I would agree that your PhD guidance is very vague...then again, graduate school often is this way, with foggy expectations and requirements...but still, you should at least have a reasonably concrete project by now.

I assume you are being support full in grad school with a stipend and tuition waivers. I would expect your advisor to attempt to provide adequate assistance to get you prepared to work on you research.
 
  • #13
You say you are "interested in particle physics." Your interests seem incredibly vague for someone in their 6th year of a PhD program. Don't misunderstand me though...I am not blaming you for this. Your advisor could certainly be at fault here.

Is your advisor new to the advising game? Is he an assistant prof, or a tenured prof?
 
  • #14
leright said:
You say you are "interested in particle physics." Your interests seem incredibly vague for someone in their 6th year of a PhD program. Don't misunderstand me though...I am not blaming you for this. Your advisor could certainly be at fault here.

Is your advisor new to the advising game? Is he an assistant prof, or a tenured prof?

...no you are right...it goes deeper than that. I know specifically in detail what I am interested in and it is deep deep deep and I am at that level now.

I know an awful lot about a little so that is good. Its just that what I originally wanted to do, i discovered has already been done and I don't think my supervisor is sure what he wants me to do now.
 
  • #15
romeo6 said:
Its just that what I originally wanted to do, i discovered has already been done and I don't think my supervisor is sure what he wants me to do now.

Welcome to the wonderful world of research...

Well, your advisor should have a list of possible projects for you to take on instead. Ideally, these will be tangentially related to what you have been working on so that you don't have to start from scratch.
 
  • #16
Troll rolls through my mind.
 
  • #17
mathboy said:
What percentage of all PhD students fail to generate an acceptable work before time's up?

At our school and the two others I'm familiar with, this percentage is very small or zero. When the limit is up, suddenly big names in the department mobilize, and in a few weeks those students go from having nothing to being almost done. It's almost magical, watching it happen.

To me, a more interesting question is, "What percentage of PhD students produce a dissertation that's worth the paper its printed on?"
 
  • #18
Indeed, I've heard from many postdocs that such situations happen all the time. Big names tend to retain their nobility by giving PhDs that are never meant to be completed, than the opposite. Furthermore, those who earn a PhD without deserving it rarely continue in research fields. Thus, everyone is happy in the end.
 
  • #19
mathboy said:
So sad. Half of all PhD students with several years wasted, having earned nothing at all. I remember one of my high school teachers, quite mature-looking with all grey-hair. He said that he was a first year teacher because he just was declined his PhD after many years of work.


Did he say why he was declined his PHD? Was his dissertation just not good enough? Poor guy.
 
  • #20
He said he never finished his PhD. I took that as being that he was declined his PhD, especially considering that he looked like he spent many years on it. Also, I've known at least 5 teachers (not all mine) who did get their PhD, and then several years later became a high school teacher. Which to me sounds like they earned a PhD without really developing the ability to produce good research (or efficient research) and so resorted to becoming a high school teacher in the end, which supports:
PhysiSmo said:
Furthermore, those who earn a PhD without deserving it rarely continue in research fields.
 
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  • #21
mathboy said:
Which to me sounds like they earned a PhD without really developing the ability to produce good research (or efficient research) and so resorted to becoming a high school teacher in the end, which supports:

Maybe some of them just decided in the end that they wanted to be high school teachers? I think if we had more M.S. and PhD people in those positions (and paid them better of course) the state of our math and science education in this country might not be so poor.
 
  • #22
PhysiSmo said:
Big names tend to retain their nobility by giving PhDs that are never meant to be completed, than the opposite. Furthermore, those who earn a PhD without deserving it rarely continue in research fields. Thus, everyone is happy in the end.

Well, except the people who actually worked hard on real projects to get their PhD, right? Because their PhD has less value for every person who gets one and doesn't deserve it.
 
  • #23
Locrian said:
Well, except the people who actually worked hard on real projects to get their PhD, right? Because their PhD has less value for every person who gets one and doesn't deserve it.

Exactly..
 
  • #24
Ah. I get the feeling I missed some irony. :redface:
 

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