The effect of Faraday braking on the Earth’s orbit

  • Context: Undergrad 
  • Thread starter Thread starter jeffkosmo
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Braking Faraday Orbit
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the potential effects of Faraday braking due to the solar wind on Earth's orbit around the Sun. Participants explore the implications of conductive plasma ejected by the Sun and its interaction with Earth's magnetic field, as well as various forces acting on Earth in its orbital dynamics.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that the braking effect observed when a magnet falls through a conductive tube could similarly apply to Earth as it orbits the Sun, potentially causing it to fall closer to the Sun due to the conductive plasma ejected by the Sun.
  • Another participant questions the comparison of the conductivity of solar plasma to copper, implying that this comparison is crucial to understanding the braking effect.
  • A participant outlines various forces affecting Earth's orbit, including gravitational wave resistance, tidal forces due to the Sun's rotation, and the impact of solar wind drag, suggesting these forces could influence Earth's orbital dynamics.
  • One participant reiterates the request for numeric estimates of the small drag components mentioned in the previous post.
  • Another participant acknowledges the conductivity of solar wind, suggesting it could have a significant effect on Earth's orbit, but notes that the mass of the solar wind would need to be considerably greater for it to have a substantial influence.
  • A later reply encourages estimating the effect of solar wind on Earth's orbit by calculating the force exerted on Earth's magnetic field based on the solar wind's charge density and velocity.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the significance of solar wind and its conductivity, as well as the various forces acting on Earth. There is no consensus on the overall impact of these factors on Earth's orbit.

Contextual Notes

Participants have not reached a consensus on the numerical estimates of the forces discussed, and assumptions regarding the conductivity of solar plasma compared to copper remain unaddressed.

jeffkosmo
Messages
7
Reaction score
0
TL;DR
See below.
If you let a magnet free-fall down a copper or aluminum tube, the induced magnetic field in the surrounding conductive medium imposes a braking effect on the magnet, reducing its speed (explained by Lenz’s law).

The earth, being a large magnet, is essentially free-falling around the sun. The sun is continually ejecting plasma into the solar system. The plasma is conductive.

Shouldn’t this impose a braking force on the earth, causing it to fall ever closer to the sun?
 
Astronomy news on Phys.org
jeffkosmo said:
The sun is continually ejecting plasma into the solar system. The plasma is conductive.

Have you compared the conductivity of this plasma with copper? If not, maybe you should.
 
Earth is subject to a number of tiny decelerating and accelerating forces:
  1. Earth orbiting Sun should due to general relativity emit gravitational waves. Therefore Earth should experience a force of gravitational wave resistance
  2. Sun rotates faster than Earth orbits (Earth orbits in 365 days, Sun rotates in 25 days). Earth should raise a tidal wave in Sun. Rotation of Sun should cause tidal drag in gaseous body of Sun, which should slow down Sun rotation and speed up Earth revolution, propelling Earth to a higher orbit
  3. Earth also rotates faster than Earth orbits. Sun raises tides in Earth oceans slowing down Earth rotation. But excluding all other forces, the combined angular momentum of Earth rotation and Earth revolution should be constant - therefore tidal friction should have not only a torque on Earth rotation but a propulsive force on Earth revolution.
  4. Even if solar wind were not plasma and were completely neutral atoms that pass unobstructed through Earth magnetic field, or if Earth had no magnetic field like Venus, or had a magnetic reversal and no field for a time, the solar wind particles would still collide with body and atmosphere of Earth and exert some wind drag. Due to Earth revolution, the solar wind drag should have a tangential component contrary to revolution.
  5. When Earth does have a magnetic field (like now and most of the past), the magnetic field increases solar wind resistance.
So can anyone offer numeric estimates of the enumerated small drag components?
 
snorkack said:
So can anyone offer numeric estimates of the enumerated small drag components?

Have you compared the conductivity of this plasma with copper? If not, maybe you should.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: weirdoguy
Interesting concept - the solar wind is a perfectly conducting plasma, much more so than copper, so it should be a significant effect - in principle. In fact, it's what's thought to govern the accretion of matter onto stars and is called the magnetorotational instability, or Balbus-Hawley accretion. For the solar wind to have an appreciable influence on Earth's orbit however, it would need to be much more massive than it is.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: PeroK
@jeffkosmo if you're still curious, you can estimate the effect the solar wind might have on the Earth's orbit. Find out the charge density and velocity of the solar wind and calculate the force this exerts on Earth's magnetic field and how much this would change Earth's velocity in it's orbit around the Sun after 4.5 billion years.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
3K
Replies
17
Views
4K
  • · Replies 18 ·
Replies
18
Views
4K
  • · Replies 14 ·
Replies
14
Views
6K
  • · Replies 10 ·
Replies
10
Views
5K
  • · Replies 46 ·
2
Replies
46
Views
12K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
3K