The fate of neutron rich nuclei

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    Neutron Nuclei
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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the stability of neutron-rich nuclei and the mechanisms of decay involved, including beta decay and electron capture. Participants explore the implications of neutron and proton mass differences, energy states within nuclei, and the conditions under which these particles decay or transform into one another.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that adding neutrons to a nucleus leads to instability due to the neutron's higher mass and the tendency of systems to evolve toward lower energy states.
  • Others argue that the mass difference between free neutrons and protons is small compared to the importance of available energy states within the nucleus.
  • A participant notes that in proton-rich nuclei, beta-plus decay occurs, contrasting with beta-minus decay in neutron-rich nuclei.
  • There is a discussion about the decay energies and half-lives of various isotopes, indicating that the binding energy and decay mechanisms are complex and not solely dependent on mass differences.
  • Some participants highlight the balancing act between beta decay and electron capture, particularly in proton-rich environments where protons repel each other.
  • One participant suggests that electron capture is energetically favorable when electrons are present, which adds complexity to the decay processes.
  • Another participant mentions the Mattauch rule and its exceptions, emphasizing the role of energy considerations in decay pathways.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of views on the mechanisms of decay and the factors influencing stability in neutron-rich nuclei. There is no clear consensus, as differing perspectives on the significance of mass differences, energy states, and decay processes are presented.

Contextual Notes

Limitations in the discussion include the dependence on specific definitions of decay mechanisms, the complexity of energy states within nuclei, and unresolved mathematical details regarding decay energies and half-lives.

Geofleur
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I've been trying to understand why adding neutrons to a nucleus will eventually destabilize it; I would like to know if the following explanation is correct:

The neutron has a slightly higher mass than the proton. But higher mass translates into higher energy because ## E = mc^2 ##. However, systems tend to evolve toward lower energies, like a ball rolling down a hill and coming to rest in a depression.

A free neutron will decay (in about 10 min) into a proton, an electron, and an anti-electron neutrino. This reaction doesn't happen to neutrons inside stable atoms (see below). But in a neutron rich atom, the nucleus can transition to a lower state if a neutron turns into a proton, because the proton is lighter than the neutron.

The reason that all neutrons don't just spontaneously decay into protons is that both protons and neutrons are fermions, meaning that no more than one can occupy any given quantum state. After a point, a neutron decaying into a proton will result in a proton with high enough energy to compensate for the mass difference between the proton and neutron, because there are no low energy slots left for the newly formed proton to occupy.

What do you guys think?

Later edit: I found this post later on, which seems to agree with what I'm saying? https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/why-are-neutron-rich-isotopes-unstable.625062/
 
Last edited:
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Geofleur said:
But in a neutron rich atom, the nucleus can transition to a lower state if a neutron turns into a proton, because the proton is lighter than the neutron.
The mass difference of the free particles is small, the available energy states in the nuclei are much more important. In proton-rich nuclei you have the opposite type of decay (beta+ instead of beta-).
 
mfb said:
The mass difference of the free particles is small, the available energy states in the nuclei are much more important. In proton-rich nuclei you have the opposite type of decay (beta+ instead of beta-).
Sometimes more important, yes.
Look at the simple symmetric nuclei:
n vs. p: n has decay energy of 782 keV, half-life 10 minutes
t vs. 3He: t has decay energy of 18 keV, half-life 12 years. Obviously neutron is bound more strongly to d than p - but that 764 keV difference is not enough to stabilize t. It does, however, cause 3He to be a strong neutron absorber, releasing these 764 keV in:
3He+n→t+p
5He vs. 5Li: both unbound
7Li vs. 7Be: 7Be is unstable, yet does NOT have β+ decay! The opposite reaction of β- is not β+ - it is electron capture. 7Be has that, with energy of 862 keV - and β+ is therefore impossible.
9Be vs. 9B: 9Be is bound by 1680 keV, 9B unbound
11B vs. 11C: 11C does have decay energy of about 1980 keV for electron capture, and therefore can also undergo β+ decay, with energy of about 960 keV, which turns out to be the main decay path, about 20 minutes half-life.
 
What I understand from these answers is the following:

The neutron, left to itself, decays; even inside a nucleus it tends to decay if the nucleus is too neutron-rich. Protons, on the other hand, do not decay on their own (well, some speculative theories say they do, after a really, really long time). But inside the nucleus a proton can convert into a neutron through electron capture or positron emission. Since protons repel each other through the Coulomb interaction, electron-capture (or sometimes positron emission) is energetically favorable when the nucleus is proton-rich. So we have a balancing act between beta decay and electron capture (and sometimes positron emission).

Is that a good way to summarize the state of affairs?
 
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@snorkack: Yes there are some exceptions where the proton/neutron mass difference matters, but I don't think they are important here.

Beta+ for proton-rich nuclei is really analogous to beta- for neutron-rich nuclei. Electron capture is an additional decay mechanism if there are electrons around, it is energetically favorable only because of the rest energy of the involved particles (using the electron gives up to 511 keV, not needing the positron gives another 511 keV difference).
 
mfb said:
Beta+ for proton-rich nuclei is really analogous to beta- for neutron-rich nuclei. Electron capture is an additional decay mechanism if there are electrons around, it is energetically favorable only because of the rest energy of the involved particles (using the electron gives up to 511 keV, not needing the positron gives another 511 keV difference).
I believe that viewing electron capture as the proper inverse of beta decay is the more useful.
This is the basis of Mattauch rule (violated only by 123Te and 180mTa).
When you consider two isobars different by only one proton or neutron, when electrons are not around, many of them (starting with 7Be) do not have the energy to produce an electron-positron pair.
But when electrons are around, since the rest mass of neutrinos, if any, is small, then either of the isobars is higher in energy and might decay into the others.
 

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