The influence of Gravity on particles

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the influence of gravity on electron beams and other particles, exploring both theoretical and mathematical aspects of this interaction. Participants examine the implications of gravity's effect on particles with small mass, particularly in different gravitational environments.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants assert that gravity causes particles, including electron beams, to move downward, similar to other objects.
  • Others question the significance of gravity's influence on electrons due to their small mass, suggesting that the effect may be negligible.
  • A participant references Galileo's Leaning Tower of Pisa experiment to prompt discussion on the principles of gravity.
  • Some argue that while the gravitational force on electrons is small, it is not zero, and they discuss the mathematical relationship between force, mass, and acceleration.
  • One participant notes that in realistic scenarios, other forces acting on electrons are much larger than gravitational forces, making gravity often negligible.
  • Another participant emphasizes that the acceleration of an object under gravity is independent of its mass, as demonstrated by the equation for acceleration.
  • A hypothetical scenario is introduced where the effects of gravity would be significant, such as on a neutron star, contrasting with conditions on Earth.
  • Participants discuss the appropriateness of classical versus quantum-mechanical treatments for particles in gravitational fields, particularly in non-relativistic contexts.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the significance of gravity's influence on particles, particularly electrons. While some acknowledge a minimal effect, others argue that it can be neglected in many practical scenarios. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the extent to which gravity affects particles in various contexts.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations in the assumptions made about gravitational effects, particularly in different environments. The discussion also highlights the dependence on definitions of negligible versus significant forces and the appropriateness of classical versus quantum treatments.

Fadicando
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How does gravity influence an electron beam? And how does it influence the other particles?
 
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It makes it go down. Just like everything else.
 
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Vanadium 50 said:
It makes it go down. Just like everything else.

But how it happens mathematically? Because I thought that as the mass of the electrons is insignificant, the influence of gravity wouldn't do any difference.
 
Fadicando said:
I thought that as the mass of the electrons is insignificant, the influence of gravity wouldn't do any difference.
Have you studied Galileo's Leaning Tower of Pisa experiment? If so, what does it teach us?
 
Electrons don't feel a large force but they also don't have much mass that would need large forces.

Anyway: For realistic setups other forces on the electrons are far larger. Gravity is always negligible. You can calculate the electric field strength needed to provide a force as large as gravity.
 
Fadicando said:
But how it happens mathematically? Because I thought that as the mass of the electrons is insignificant, the influence of gravity wouldn't do any difference.
Do you understand the difference between "a very small amount" and "none" ?
 
Fadicando said:
But how it happens mathematically? Because I thought that as the mass of the electrons is insignificant, the influence of gravity wouldn't do any difference.

The force is very, very small, but so is the mass of the electron. If you look at the equation for acceleration, ##A=F/M## and put the equation for gravitational force in for ##F##, you'll find that the mass cancels out entirely. The acceleration of the smaller object is independent of its mass.
 
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Drakkith said:
The force is very, very small, but so is the mass of the electron. If you look at the equation for acceleration, ##A=F/M## and put the equation for gravitational force in for ##F##, you'll find that the mass cancels out entirely. The acceleration of the smaller object is independent of its mass.


Thank u so much!
 
Fadicando said:
How does gravity influence an electron beam? And how does it influence the other particles?

It depends on the strength of gravitational field where you observe the particles. Physicists living here on the Earth's surface can safely neglect any gravitational influence on particles in their colliders. However, hypothetical physicist, let's say living on a surface of a neutron star (*) couldn't afford such luxury, ie. to neglect effects due to gravity.

(*) please ignore for while that such hypothetical beings couldn't survive in such conditions ;-)
 
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If you mean particles in the gravitational field around the Earth a non-relativistic treatment is sufficient. Of course if you deal with single particles a quantum-mechanical treatment is more appropriate than a classical treatment. The most accurate test that the standard quantum mechanical treatment for particles in the homogeneous gravitational field of the Earth (i.e., the usual "free-fall setup") leads to the correct result to my knowledge is a measurement on neutrons subject to the gravitational field of the Earth and a "horizontal mirror on the bottom":

https://www.nature.com/articles/415297a

https://journals.aps.org/prd/abstract/10.1103/PhysRevD.67.102002
https://arxiv.org/abs/hep-ph/0306198
 
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