The Lagrangian of a free particle ##L=-m \, ds/dt##

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the Lagrangian for a free particle as proposed by Dirac, specifically the expression ##L=-m \, ds/dt##. Participants explore the implications of this formulation within the context of special relativity, questioning the assumptions made regarding the relationship between the Lagrangian and the relativistic momentum.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant cites Dirac's postulation of the action for a free particle and derives the Lagrangian, questioning whether the relationship ##p^k = \frac{\partial L}{\partial \dot{x}^k}## holds for relativistic particles as it does for non-relativistic ones.
  • Another participant points out the difference in notation between Dirac and Landau-Lifshitz, suggesting that the definition of 4-momentum in the Hamiltonian formalism may not be circular reasoning.
  • A participant argues that defining ##p^k## as ##\partial L / \partial \dot{x}^k## is circular reasoning since this definition originates from the non-relativistic case, and suggests that Dirac should have considered the non-relativistic limit to determine the coefficient ##\kappa##.
  • One participant summarizes the discussion, reiterating the concern that the assumption ##p^k = \partial L / \partial \dot{x}^k## is valid only in the non-relativistic context, while also noting that this holds true in special relativity with appropriate modifications to the Lagrangian.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express disagreement regarding the validity of Dirac's assumptions about the relationship between the Lagrangian and momentum in the relativistic context, with no consensus reached on whether his reasoning is circular.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the need to consider the non-relativistic limit to validate the coefficient in the Lagrangian, indicating potential limitations in Dirac's approach without explicitly resolving these concerns.

Kostik
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TL;DR
How to show that ##L=-m \, ds/dt## for a free particle.
In Dirac's "General Theory of Relativity" (p. 52), he postulates that the action for a free particle of mass ##m## is $$I=-m \int ds$$ hence the Lagrangian is $$L=-m\frac{ds}{dt} = -m\frac{\sqrt{\eta_{\mu\nu}dx^\mu dx^\nu}}{dt}
\, .$$ To confirm that ##-m## is the correct coefficient, he assumes flat spacetime (special relativity) and calculates $$\frac{\partial L}{\partial \dot{x}^k} = -m\frac{\partial}{\partial \dot{x}^k}\left( \frac{ds}{dt}\right) = m\frac{ \dot{x}^k }{ ds/dt } = m \frac{dx^k}{ds}$$ which is the correct formula for relativistic 4-momentum ##p^k##. ("As it ought to be", says Dirac.)

##\qquad## But doesn't this assume that $$p^k = \frac{\partial L}{\partial \dot{x}^k} \quad ?$$ This is true for the non-relativistic Lagrangian for a free particle $$L=T-U = \frac{1}{2}mv^2 \qquad (*)$$ but is it true for a relativistic particle?

##\qquad## (Landau-Lifshitz give what seems to be a more convincing confirmation. They also postulate that ##L= \kappa \, ds/dt##, and assume flat spacetime (special relativity) where ##ds^2 = \eta_{\mu\nu}dx^\mu dx^\nu##. Then $$L=\kappa \frac{ds}{dt}=\kappa \sqrt{1-v^2} \, .$$ Hence, for velocities ##v \ll 1##, we have $$L = \kappa - \frac{1}{2}\kappa v^2 + O(v^4) \, .$$ The nonrelativistic Lagrangian is shown above in ##(*)##, so to get the correct kinetic energy term, we must have ##\kappa = -m##.)

##\qquad## I'd like to understand Dirac's confirmation that ##\kappa = -m##. How does he know in advance that $$p^k = \frac{\partial L}{\partial \dot{x}^k} $$ for a relativistic particle? It seems like he's using circular reasoning.

##\qquad## I think what Dirac forgot to add was "Since ##p^k = \partial L / \partial \dot{x}^k## in the case ##v \ll 1##, we see that ##\kappa = -m##."
 
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IIRC, Dirac uses Greek for 0-3, while Latin for 1-3, unlike L-L who use Greek for 1-3, and Latin for 0-3.

So if we try to switch from the Lagrangian density \mathcal{L} to the Hamiltonian formalism, we define the 4-momentum as

\begin{equation} p_\mu =: \frac{\partial \mathcal{L} \left(x,\dot{x}\right)}{\partial \dot{x}^\mu}\end{equation},

where the dot is the worldline parameter (most commonly chosen as the proper time).

Why would going Greek > Latin be circular reasoning?
 
I think it's circular reasoning because ##p^k = \partial L / \partial \dot{x}^k## is derived for a non-relativistic free particle, where ##L=mv^2/2##. But, otherwise, ##p^k \equiv \partial L / \partial \dot{x}^k## is the definition of the "conjugate momentum". We cannot simultaneously define ##p^k \equiv \partial L / \partial \dot{x}^k## and ##p^k \equiv m\, dx^k/ds = mv^k##.

I think Dirac needs to reduce to the non-relativistic case (like L-L) in order to determine ##\kappa##.

##\qquad## I think what Dirac should have done is this: Consider the case ##v \ll 1##, where ##L = T = mv^2/2##. Then we confirm by calculation that $$\frac{\partial L}{\partial \dot{x}^k} = \frac{m}{2}\frac{\partial v^2}{\partial \dot{x}^k}=m\dot{x}^k \,. $$ Comparing this with $$\frac{\partial L}{\partial \dot{x}^k} = -\kappa \frac{dx^k}{ds} $$ and using ##ds=dt## when ##v \ll 1##, we obtain ##\kappa = -m##.
 
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Kostik said:
TL;DR Summary: How to show that ##L=-m \, ds/dt## for a free particle.

But doesn't this assume that pk=∂L∂x˙k? This is true for the non-relativistic Lagrangian for a free particle
This is also true for SR Lagrangian. For SR Lagrangian pk has the factor \frac{1}{\sqrt{1-v^2/c^2}} as we see in experiments. Analytical mechanics holds also in special relativity only by changing the Lagrangian functions.
 
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