The Lord of the Rings: A Discussion Community

[James Holland]

I was wondering if many members liked the lord of the rings and also it is hard to find people who like to talk about it in person so I thought this could be a place to discuss it anyway.

 

[HallsofIvy]

Considering that The Lord of the Rings, as well as The Hobbit, were published in the 1930 and just recently has 6 movies based on the movies marketed, I would say there are an awful lot of people who like them!

 

[James Holland]

I agree however in the area around were i live very few people do
hence i made this thread so that i could talk about them.

 

[Fervent Freyja]

Alright, what would you like to discuss? I enjoyed the works of J.R.R. Tolkien in my teenage days, including his scholarly work, but can discuss the movies too. What works have you read?

I'm open to arguing some aspects as well. Just shoot...

 

[James Holland]

i have read most of them

 

[James Holland]

what is quite annoying is that every one says that Frodo and Sam should have just flown on the eagles the whole way.
this is just generally stupid as the eagles would of been shot at and almost definitely killed by at least three factions/groups

 

[cpscdave]

what is quite annoying is that every one says that Frodo and Sam should have just flown on the eagles the whole way. this is just generally stupid as the eagles would of been shot at and almost definitely killed by at least three factions/groups

I saw a video discussing this very thing.
What I thought was interesting is the guy was arguing that the original plan for Gandalf was to swing back up to the Eagles and fly, but of course the Balrog kinda got in the way.
Basically everything up to that point was a ruse to make it seem like they were going to go on foot.

Then there is the whole "Fly you fools"

 

[James Holland]

Then there is the whole "Fly you fools"

well this is just a way of saying run or flee. like in the common Latin phrase Tempus Fugit meaning time fly's or runs away/slips away

 

[James Holland]

and also due to Saruman destroying the high pass resulted in them going through the mine of Moria and where they came out would of put them in a yet worse position to fly to Mordor or Gondor

 

[micromass]

what is quite annoying is that every one says that Frodo and Sam should have just flown on the eagles the whole way.
this is just generally stupid as the eagles would of been shot at and almost definitely killed by at least three factions/groups

How is it a stupid idea? Who would shoot or kill them? Shoot them with arrows you mean? It's pretty easy to fly high enough so that arrows won't reach you. The only thing that could really harm the eagles were other flying creatures.
As much as I like LOTR, the eagle thing is a very definite plot hole.

 

[James Holland]

well if one were to look at a map of middle Earth one could see that they would be forced to fly over goblins, wild men, uruk hai (also Sauroman) silven elves, wood elves and many more as for the weapons that would be shot at them both bows cross bows ballistas and most importantly Magic. the magic of Sauroman could easily hit and kill eagles the height restraint would be down to the passengers lungs, Gimili may struggle when they get high Aragorn, Boromir, Legolasand and Gandalf would be fine but all four Hobbits would very soon struggle to breath and so the eagles would be forced to fly low enough at least for cross bows and ballistas if not normal bows but also very much so the range of elven bows.
also the eagles were not dragons it would not take much to pierce their skin.
even if by some miracle they made it to Mordor they would be killed in seconds from the orcs ect that guard it and so the fellowship would have to land in Gondor and go on foot from their.
this is also just hoping that the Nazgul don't fly up and kill them in the air.

 

[Fervent Freyja]

How is it a stupid idea? Who would shoot or kill them? Shoot them with arrows you mean? It's pretty easy to fly high enough so that arrows won't reach you. The only thing that could really harm the eagles were other flying creatures.
As much as I like LOTR, the eagle thing is a very definite plot hole.

Very stupid idea to take Gollum, the guide, on long distance eagle-journeys. He would have driven them insane...

How strong are orcs? How much weight can they place behind the bow? How far can that travel when being shot almost straight up into the air? Are these magically embedded arrows/bows? They would want to know that just in case, they wouldn't always be flying in the same elevation during the journey due to numerous factors. What is the highest elevation that would have the most tolerable, safe temperatures/gas exchange efficiency?

 

[James Holland]

well the different orcs have different strength but considering they are trained to be warriors from as soon as their pulled out of the ses-pits they all used to be elves so they have a level of bow skill which would lead me to believe that they could shoot very powerfully. accuracy would be the main issue but sheer weight in numbers would remove this issue.
as for how high an eagle can fly with a hobbit on. not very is a brief answer. a bit higher than a average mountain. and as orcs and goblins often live in mountains this might as well be a round about a couple hundred feet (not far for a good archer) the furthest shot on record was 500 meters an orc could look at about 200-300 meters so they would be in range.
and even if the arrows could not reach them the spells easily could.

 

[James Holland]

this is hoping that they aren't being eaten by nazguls

 

[Noisy Rhysling]

Where are the female Orcs?

 

[Noisy Rhysling]

this is hoping that they aren't being eaten by nazguls

Did they know about the flying serpent-thingys the Nazgul flew at the time of the Council of Elrond?

 

[Khatti]

Where are the female Orcs?

I would assume the Orks are mules. They seem to be bred and raised in the sorcerus equivalent of a breeding creche.

 

[rootone]

Where are the female Orcs?

That sort of question will get you into a lot of trouble when traveling through Orc territory.

 

[Fervent Freyja]

Where are the female Orcs?

They are at home and quite comfortable.

Tolkien says there must have been female orcs: http://greenbooks.theonering.net/guest/files/041305.html

Tolkien was a gentleman, he probably figured his orcs are excellent providers and don't make/let their women fight in wars.

 

[Noisy Rhysling]

I wonder if they had tea with the Entwives?

 

[Khatti]

Tolkien was a gentleman, he probably figured his orcs are excellent providers and don't make/let their women fight in wars.

Also, because they're out and about trying the exterminate all the rest of humanity, they're never sitting around the house taking up space and getting on your nerves.

 

[Khatti]

That sort of question will get you into a lot of trouble when traveling through Orc territory

Yeah, and it's a real shame too, because Orcs are so easygoing and personable otherwise.

 

[Noisy Rhysling]

Also, because they're out and about trying the exterminate all the rest of humanity, they're never sitting around the house taking up space and getting on your nerves.

I wonder if they had "Take your orclet to the slaughter" day?

 

[James Holland]

Where are the female Orcs?

honestly i don,t know where they would be but i do no they give birth to litters of orclets and these burst through their stomach a bit like alien and then eat their own mothers alive. but this would take ages so mordor and isengard ect would tend to rely on ses pits

 

[James Holland]

Did they know about the flying serpent-thingys the Nazgul flew at the time of the Council of Elrond?

well they defiantly new about them in-fact they are baby dragons of the same species as smaug but they cannot breath fire or have a nearly indestructible hides. the dwarves of the iron hills started a program to breed the same beasts for riding in battle. However I have no idea if the council knew of the wring wraiths riding them.

 

[James Holland]

what is a far bigger plot hole than the eagles is Tom Bombadil as he clearly stated that all frodo would need to do is call his name to receive assistance from Tom who is one of the most powerful people in middle Earth and so could easily face either a orc pack or a couple of Nazgul. maybe not all nine but at least three