The matter content in the universe when the last scattering happens

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the matter content of the universe during the last scattering epoch, focusing on the roles of electrons, protons, and neutral hydrogen in the context of charge neutrality and recombination. Participants explore theoretical assumptions and observational implications related to these processes.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that the universe is electrically neutral, consisting of neutral atoms, unbound electrons, photons, and decoupled neutrinos, questioning if there are sufficient positive charges to balance the negative charge of electrons.
  • Others argue that last scattering occurred when free electrons and protons formed neutral hydrogen, suggesting that the densities of electrons and protons must approximately equal at recombination due to charge conservation.
  • A participant seeks clarification on the timeline of recombination and decoupling, noting that as electrons are captured by protons, the efficiency of Compton scattering declines, raising questions about the role of protons in scattering events.
  • Another participant acknowledges the general coincidence of recombination and decoupling, emphasizing that the interaction rate between photons and free electrons decreases as the universe expands.
  • One participant highlights that the Thomson scattering cross section for protons is significantly smaller than that for electrons, which may explain their lesser role in scattering processes.
  • A repeated assertion about the balance of charge is made, emphasizing the role of positive ions and free protons in countering the charge of free electrons.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express both agreement and disagreement on various aspects of the discussion. While there is some consensus on the roles of electrons and protons in charge neutrality, the specifics of the processes and their implications remain contested and not fully resolved.

Contextual Notes

Participants note the importance of assumptions regarding charge conservation and the approximate equality of electron and proton densities at recombination, but these assumptions are not universally accepted or detailed.

Accidently
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Assuming that the whole universe is electric charge neutral, there are neutral atoms, unbound electrons (which play the role in the last scattering), photons and decoupled neutrinos. So it seems to me there is no particle to "balance" the negative charge carried by the electrons.

Did I miss something?
 
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Last scattering is thought to have occurred because the free electrons and protons began to form neutral hydrogen at around z = 1100. So, it's not that you have equal number densities of neutral hydrogen and free electrons -- the electrons are used to form the hydrogen. However, I suppose it is an assumption that the densities [itex]n_e = n_p[/itex] at recombination, although this equality must hold at least approximately since with too many free electrons floating around, the epochs of decoupling and recombination no longer closely coincide. The assumption of [itex]n_e = n_p[/itex] likely stems from the idea of charge conservation in the universe -- which is a reasonable theoretical supposition and also appears to be supported observationally. While there are ionized regions of the universe, these are the result of local physics and charge is conserved in these processes; most bound structures are overwhelmingly charge neutral.
 
so, if I understand correctly,
when z = 1300, the recombination happens, and a lot of electrons are captured by the protons to form hydrogen atom.
As the number of electrons declines, the Compton scattering is not likely to happen, and at z = 1100, the photons cannot scatter with electrons efficiently any more. But these electrons will keep being captured by the protons until the recombination process totally finished.

Is this correct?

But I am still wondering, if there are electrons for the last scattering, there must be protons participating the scattering with photons as well (in order to keep the universe neutral). Why they are not taken into account? Is that because the cross section is small or we just need to calculate approximately?
 
I don't recall the exact redshifts of the two events, but recombination and decoupling can generally be taken to loosely coincide, with recombination occurring first. But yes, as the temperature drops neutral hydrogen begins to form and the numbers of free electrons decline. Soon the interaction rate between the photons and remaining free electrons (and between photons and the bound electrons) falls below the expansion rate of the universe and decoupling occurs.

With regards to free proton scattering, you are again correct. The Thomson scattering cross section goes like [itex]\sim 1/m^2[/itex] and so it is suppressed by a factor of [itex]10^6[/itex] relative to free electron scattering.
 
Accidently said:
Assuming that the whole universe is electric charge neutral, there are neutral atoms, unbound electrons (which play the role in the last scattering), photons and decoupled neutrinos. So it seems to me there is no particle to "balance" the negative charge carried by the electrons.

Did I miss something?
Positive ions, free protons balance the charge of all free electrons.
 
Sounds like another reason to have a...positive...attitude...muahahaha!
 
explains everything. thanks
 

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