The significance of commutation

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the concept of commutation in quantum mechanics, specifically in the context of an atom emitting a photon and the relationship between energy operators and observables. Participants explore the implications of commutation relations and the properties of Hermitian operators.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant describes a scenario from H. S. Green's Matrix Mechanics involving an atom emitting a photon, where the energy difference is related to the angular velocity and commutation of operators.
  • Another participant explains that commutation is defined as [A,H] = AH - HA, and discusses the implications of operators commuting or not commuting in relation to shared eigenfunctions.
  • A participant notes the relationship between the Hermitian property of the Hamiltonian operator H and its action on eigenstates, leading to the conclusion that the eigenvalues are real.
  • There is a discussion about the mathematical rigor of taking adjoints of operators and vectors, with one participant acknowledging some sloppiness in the explanation but affirming the correctness of the conclusion.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the definitions and implications of commutation and the properties of Hermitian operators, but there is some uncertainty regarding the mathematical rigor of the explanations provided.

Contextual Notes

There are mentions of potential mathematical sloppiness in the treatment of adjoints and eigenvalues, which may affect the clarity of the discussion.

snoopies622
Messages
852
Reaction score
29
I'm in chapter two of H. S. Green's Matrix Mechanics and at a sticking point. In section 2.2 he gives the following scenario:

An atom emits a photon with angular velocity ω, it has energy Ei before the emission and Ef after, so Ei - Ef = ħω. (That I can understand.) ψi and ψf are eigenvectors of the energy operator H, while Ei and Ef are their corresponding eigenvalues, respectively. He then gives this equation, where A is "any observable":

ψf * (AH-HA) ψi = ( Ei - Ef ) ψ f * A ψ i.

Although he briefly mentions commutation a couple paragraphs before this point, it's not enough to explain where this relationship comes from.

Can anyone help me out?
 
Physics news on Phys.org
Well, commutation in this case is [A,H] = AH - HA. If it is equal to 0, it is said that the 2 operators, H and A, commute, that is they share eigenfunctions. Otherwise, they do not share eigenfunctions as this problem kinda shows. Getting to the meat of the problem, [tex]\psi ^f (AH - HA)\psi ^i = \psi ^f AH\psi ^i - \psi ^f HA\psi ^i[/tex]. Now the important part is that since H is hermitian, it can act to the left in the second term, that is [tex]\psi ^f HA\psi ^i = \psi ^f E^f A\psi ^i = E^f \psi ^f A\psi ^i[/tex]. You can't do anything with A since you don't know what it is and that is how you get the right hand side.
 
I think I follow..

i = Eiψi implies ψi*H = ψi*Ei

and this is true because H is Hermitian?
 
Yes. The reason is that:

[tex]H|\Psi^i\rangle = E^i|\Psi^i\rangle[/tex]
so taking the adjoint gives
[tex](H|\Psi^i\rangle)^\dagger = \langle \Psi^i|H[/tex]
on the left hand side, and
[tex](E^i|\Psi^i\rangle)^\dagger = \langle \Psi^i|(E^i)^* = \langle \Psi^i|E^i[/tex]
on the right hand side (the fact that all eigenvalues are real is crucial).

Mathematically, it's a bit sloppy, since the adjoint of a vector doesn't exist. The conclusion is correct, nevertheless ;).
 
Got it. :smile: Thank you both.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
3K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 24 ·
Replies
24
Views
3K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
5K
Replies
13
Views
5K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
3K
  • · Replies 26 ·
Replies
26
Views
6K