The Ultimates In Funk

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The discussion centers around the evolution and characteristics of funk music, highlighting key musicians and their contributions. Catfish Collins and his brother Bootsy Collins are noted for their roles in a short-lived band that influenced later acts, including Miles Davis's Agharta band. Bootsy Collins achieved fame with Parliament/Funkadelic and remains active in philanthropy. Jerome "Bigfoot" Brailey, the drummer, received co-writing credit, which is rare for rhythm section members. The conversation touches on genre classification, with participants debating the distinctions between funk, soul, and jazz-funk, emphasizing the subjective nature of musical categorization. The impact of streaming services on genre definitions is also discussed, along with the cultural significance of funk as a dance-oriented genre. The decline of funk in favor of techno is mentioned, but some argue that funk has persisted, influencing contemporary music. The nostalgic recollections of live performances and the importance of rhythm and groove in funk music are prominent themes throughout the thread.
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Here's my fave. Back in 1973 I didn't know who was playing the instruments. Later I found out it was Catfish Collins on eguitar and his brother Bootsie on ebass. It never got better than this. The band lasted little over a year. When they were in Zaire the band asked for a raise, didn't get it, and quit. Too bad.



In my opinion this groove with the conga player inspired Miles Davis's Agharta band which had as heavy a groove as anybody. But too hard edged to be funk.

Catfish seems to have given up on a career as a musician while Bootsie went on to fame with Parliament/Funkdelic then as a solo act. He still lives in Cleveland and has so much money he is a contributor to charities. A recording engineer related that Bootsie once asked, "what day is it?" "It's Thursday." "No I mean, what month is it?"

On this one to me the star is drummer Jerome "Bigfoot" Brailey. He was so good on this one he got cowriting credit, a possibly unique honor for a member of a rhythm section.



While camping I once tried to get my fellow campers to sing this song. They looked at me as though I had gone insane.

Then there is Was/Not Was with Walk The Dinosaur. That's Marcus Miller on ebass (not the white guy in the vid). Notice how prominently he was mixed in. Didn't get songwriting credit though.

 
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It's Bootsy, not Bootsie.
 
How would you class this? From 1.31

I would say Jazz funk

 
Also Jazz funk but different!

 
Apologies for being a bit one dimensional here but this concert features some great playing and Buddy is my fazz / reference.



This track I think was more "funk" on live at Ronnie Scott's. I will dig out the funk from there.
 
Yes definitely more funk, a little slower and note the middle section. Bass solo with Buddy keeping a grove although the LH is crazy as usual.

 
This is Jazz, rock funk everything. Sax solo at 2.31 is more funk and listen to how long the brass hold those notes!
So this whole set had a strong funk vein within the jazz setting

 
Stevie.

 
These guys were just superb writers. The same album has "Haitian Divorce," which is one of my favourite songs of all time. Top ten. ISH.


 
  • #10
pinball1970 said:
How would you class this? From 1.31

I would say Jazz funk


I heard this tune fifty years ago on the radio but didn't know who it was. Now here it is again!

I don't worry about genres much. Soul I guess. The line between funk and soul is pretty blurry.
 
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  • #11
pinball1970 said:
Also Jazz funk but different!


Funk all right. Didn't know he had it in him. Even has conga.
 
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  • #12
Hornbein said:
I heard this tune fifty years ago on the radio but didn't know who it was. Now here it is again!

I don't worry about genres much. Soul I guess. The line between funk and soul is pretty blurry.
Genre is what the thread is about isn't it?
 
  • #13
Hornbein said:
Funk all right. Didn't know he had it in him.
What?
I am not falling out with you the last 8 hours of 2024! Listen to "The word," then tell me any drummer could play it.
Tell me that is not funk!
 
  • #14
pinball1970 said:
Yes definitely more funk, a little slower and note the middle section. Bass solo with Buddy keeping a grove although the LH is crazy as usual.


The drumming during the bass solo is really good.
 
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  • #15
pinball1970 said:
What?
I am not falling out with you the last 8 hours of 2024! Listen to "The word," then tell me any drummer could play it.
Tell me that is not funk!
Huh? I didn't know he could do it. I ain't challenging nobody here.
 
  • #16
Hornbein said:
Huh? I didn't know he could do it. I ain't challenging nobody here.
Dude, it's Buddy Rich, and drumming. What he could not do was not humanly possible.
 
  • #17
pinball1970 said:
Genre is what the thread is about isn't it?
Not really. I have a policy to not engage in debates about the definitions of words that have no agreed upon definition. There is no end to that. The only reason I offered my opinion that this was soul was that you specifically asked. I thought it would be rude not to respond.

The reason I say it's soul is that soul vocals are melodic and flowing while funk vocals are rhythmic. BUT I'm anomalous in basing my opinions on how the music sounds. That's not how it works. What really matters is what bin the store selling recordings puts it in. Once you get in a bin you stay in that bin no matter what you may do musically. The Crusaders started out as the Jazz Crusaders so they're always going to be in the jazz bin. Keith Jarrett started out in the jazz bin so there he stays even though IMO records like Solo Concerts: Bremen/Lausanne have nothing to do with jazz in spite of having won Jazz Album of the Year. If that were his first recording and he had come out of a classical conservatory then no one would call it jazz, but once you're jazz you're jazz forever. Miles Davis' Live/Evil is pretty much a cover of Jimi Hendrix's Band of Gypsies but nevertheless it is in the jazz bin. John Coltrane's Om is just weird. Paul McCartney has a big music hall influence nevertheless Martha My Dear is rock. "Gatemouth" Brown is really good at jazz but will always be blues. And so on.

Then once streaming services came into vogue the genre thing metastasized. Shoegazing. Indie. Some people will listen to nothing but Scandinavian death metal. Whatever. I don't care. Either I like it or I don't.
 
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  • #18
Well in this thread I learned something about drums. I always wondered about trad grip. In 1974 I went to a Tony Williams clinic when Billy Cobham and Lenny White were AFAIK making matched grip big. Tony said trad grip had more potential. That was it. That didn't really tell me anything. Now I know what the deal is.
 
  • #19
Hornbein said:
Well in this thread I learned something about drums. I always wondered about trad grip. In 1974 I went to a Tony Williams clinic when Billy Cobham and Lenny White were AFAIK making matched grip big. Tony said trad grip had more potential. That was it. That didn't really tell me anything. Now I know what the deal is.
You can play faster with less effort, one handed and flick to the BD tom using your wrist rather than lifting the stick.

One thing lacking, power. Buddy had it but few others. Playing and improving for 67 years helps.
Also being the most talented human to ever pick up a pair of drum sticks helps as well.
 
  • #20


They must have made a fortune off of their Celebration being played at sports event.
 
  • #21
One of my favourite artists in funk, and blues, and jazz, Johnny Guitar Watson


Got a feeling

Brass Construction

Brass Construction - something more upbeat
 
  • #22
gs56cb said:
One of my favourite artists in funk, and blues, and jazz, Johnny Guitar Watson


Got a feeling

Brass Construction

Brass Construction - something more upbeat
Did you know that this was Frank Zappa's favorite guitar solo?

 
  • #23
Hornbein said:
Did you know that this was Frank Zappa's favorite guitar solo?


he produced most of Frank Zappa's catalogue. I read stories.
 
  • #24
nope, never went to a live show, tried to play guitar though, if that's what the song is referring to
 
  • #25
gs56cb said:
nope, never went to a live show, tried to play guitar though, if that's what the song is referring to
I've actually had that experience I was going to go to this rock concert, then I realized it wouldn't start at 8 pm, but at 1 am, no buses or trains running, just new frontiers
 
  • #26
Here's another one Frank liked.

 
  • #28
Ohio Players deserve a mention.
 
  • #29
Hmm whats the most popular funk song?

Zapp: More Bounce To the Ounce?
 
  • #30
MidgetDwarf said:
Hmm whats the most popular funk song?

Zapp: More Bounce To the Ounce?
That's pretty good. But I never could get behind drum machines or loops.
 
  • #31
Hornbein said:
Did you know that this was Frank Zappa's favorite guitar solo?


That is a horrible guitar sound (to me)
 
  • #32
Pick up the Pieces

 
  • #33
Wild Cherry
 
  • #34
pinball1970 said:
Pick up the Pieces


I played in a funk/soul band in Roxbury in 1973. The drummer was 16 year old Junior Price. He used his bass drum as a lead instrument, new back then but common now. Robbie MacIntosh was his favorite drummer. Subtle yet irresistible. He makes the band. When he died young it was all over for AWB.
 
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  • #35
Funk -- and African music in general -- is all about dance. Here's a funk lecture by a former Soul Train dancer. She says the main goal of Don Cornelius, the engineer of the Soul Train, was to preserve a friendly atmosphere by keeping jealousy under control. While some dancers got more camera time than others, the top dancers had to have the same amount, otherwise there would be trouble on the train. Each shoot lasted seven to eight hours. Once she got to be thirty she couldn't do it any more.

This serves as funk education.



They don't say this, but white people were not welcome. They had plenty of opportunity already. Soul Train did have an Asian dancer, Cheryl Song. This was controversial, creating some tension, but she had the moves and the look, Cornelius stood by her, and the others eventually got used to it. Rick James' Super Freak is about an Asian, uh, friend.

Funk eventually went out of style, subsumed by techno. Techno came from Germany's Kraftwerk and Japan's Yellow Magic Orchestra, the latter appearing on Soul Train. Too bad, if you ask me.
 
  • #36
Hornbein said:
That's pretty good. But I never could get behind drum machines

Hornbein said:
Funk -- and African music in general -- is all about dance. Here's a funk lecture by a former Soul Train dancer. She says the main goal of Don Cornelius, the engineer of the Soul Train, was to preserve a friendly atmosphere by keeping jealousy under control. While some dancers got more camera time than others, the top dancers had to have the same amount, otherwise there would be trouble on the train. Each shoot lasted seven to eight hours. Once she got to be thirty she couldn't do it any more.

This serves as funk education.



They don't say this, but white people were not welcome. They had plenty of opportunity already. Soul Train did have an Asian dancer, Cheryl Song. This was controversial, creating some tension, but she had the moves and the look, Cornelius stood by her, and the others eventually got used to it. Rick James' Super Freak is about an Asian, uh, friend.

Funk eventually went out of style, subsumed by techno. Techno came from Germany's Kraftwerk and Japan's Yellow Magic Orchestra, the latter appearing on Soul Train. Too bad, if you ask me.

I would argue that funk didnt go out in style. But eventually became the background of the West Coast sound.
 
  • #37
Funk did survive into the 21st century.

 
  • #38
George Clinton's version of Walk The Dinosaur.

This was in the Super Mario Bros. movie of 1993.

It follows brothers Mario (Bob Hoskins) and Luigi Mario (John Leguizamo) in their quest to rescue Princess Daisy (Samantha Mathis) from a dystopic parallel universe ruled by the ruthless President Koopa (Dennis Hopper).



The new Super Mario Brothers film released in 2023 grossed 1.36 billion dollars(!).

Bowser frees himself and summons a "Bomber" Bill to destroy the Mushroom Kingdom, but Mario knocks it off course and directs it into the Warp Pipe, where it detonates, creating a vacuum that sucks Bowser's castle and its occupants into Brooklyn.

Uh...yeah.
 
  • #39
Then there's this nice groove. The main attraction though might be the gargantuan Afro at 1:26.



Wattstax.jpg


I went to a concert like this, Parliament/Funkadelic in a Roxbury stadium 1973, so this is a very nostalgic thing for me.
 
  • #40
 
  • #41


Surprised this wasnt posted yet.
 
  • #42
This made the Australian charts. The ebass player is really good.

 
  • #43
The thirteen-year-old drummer from China is the bomb.



I call this "white people funk." Hot fast and tight instead of loose. But hey it's good.
 
  • #44
 
  • #45
This ebass player is really good. It could be some electronic thing, but... so what?

 

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