The union of any collection of closed sets is closed?

  • Context: Graduate 
  • Thread starter Thread starter rhino1000
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Closed Sets Union
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the properties of closed sets in topology, specifically whether the union of any collection of closed sets is closed. Participants explore various examples and counterexamples, as well as the implications of these properties in different topological spaces.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants argue that the union of an arbitrary collection of closed sets is not generally closed, citing examples and axioms of topology.
  • One participant presents a specific example involving sequences and claims that the union of certain closed intervals results in an open set.
  • Another participant emphasizes the importance of specifying the topological space when discussing open and closed sets, noting that the definitions are relative.
  • Several participants mention that while a finite union of closed sets is closed, a family of closed sets must be locally finite for their union to be closed.
  • There is a suggestion to characterize spaces where the arbitrary union of closed sets is closed, introducing the concept of Alexandroff spaces.
  • Participants inquire about interesting examples of Alexandroff spaces beyond discrete or finite spaces.
  • One participant references the dual notions of ##G_{\delta}## and ##F_{\sigma}## sets in relation to the discussion.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally do not agree on whether the union of any collection of closed sets is closed, with multiple competing views and examples presented. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the implications of these properties in various topological contexts.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the need for clarity on the specific topological space being considered, as well as the dependence on definitions of open and closed sets. The discussion also touches on the necessity of local finiteness for unions of closed sets to retain closure.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be useful for students and researchers in topology, particularly those interested in the properties of closed sets and the structure of different topological spaces.

rhino1000
Messages
34
Reaction score
1
I don't see how this is the case. Let ao and bo be members of [A,B] with ao<bo. Let {ai} be a strictly decreasing sequence, with each ai>A and {bi} be a strictly increasing sequencing with each bi<B. Let the limits of the two sequences be A and B, respectively. Then define Ii = [ai,bi]. It seems to me that the union of {Ii} is an open set, not a closed set. Thoughts?
 
Physics news on Phys.org
For others wondering, It can be shown that, in any topological space, the union of any collection of open sets is open. and the intersection of any finite collection of open sets is open. On the other hand, the intersection of any collection of closed sets is closed and the union of any finite collection of closed sets is closed.

It is not true, in general, that the intersection of any collection open sets is open or that the union of any collection of closed sets is closed. Counter-examples: all the sets in the collection {(1/n, (n-1)/n)} are open but the intersection of all sets in that collection is the singleton set, {1/2}, which is not open. On the other hand, all the sets in the collection {[1/n, (n-1)/n]} are closed but the union of all sets in that collection is (0, 1) which is not closed.
 
picky comment: in these last nice examples, it is necessary to state what the topological space is under consideration, since open and closed are relative terms. of course it is apparent that the space of real numbers is meant. E.g. in the last example, should the space have been taken as (0,1), the statement that (0,1) is not closed would of course, not have been true.
 
rhino1000 said:
I don't see how this is the case. Let ao and bo be members of [A,B] with ao<bo. Let {ai} be a strictly decreasing sequence, with each ai>A and {bi} be a strictly increasing sequencing with each bi<B. Let the limits of the two sequences be A and B, respectively. Then define Ii = [ai,bi]. It seems to me that the union of {Ii} is an open set, not a closed set. Thoughts?
The union of an arbitrary collection of closed sets is not in general closed. One of the axioms of topology says that a finite union of closed sets is closed, however it can be proved that a family of closed sets needs only be locally finite for the union to be closed.
 
Just take an intersection of opens that is not open -- standard is that the intersection is a point, and then use DeMorgan to find a counter for
unions of closed sets.
 
Cruz Martinez said:
The union of an arbitrary collection of closed sets is not in general closed. One of the axioms of topology says that a finite union of closed sets is closed, however it can be proved that a family of closed sets needs only be locally finite for the union to be closed.

An interesting question is to characterize those spaces where the arbitrary union of closed sets is closed. Those spaces are called "finitely generated spaces" or "Alexandroff spaces". They are characterized completely by order theory. They are surprisingly useful too!
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: S.G. Janssens and Cruz Martinez
Any interesting Alexandroff spaces other than discrete or finite spaces?
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: S.G. Janssens
micromass said:
An interesting question is to characterize those spaces where the arbitrary union of closed sets is closed. Those spaces are called "finitely generated spaces" or "Alexandroff spaces". They are characterized completely by order theory. They are surprisingly useful too!
The dual notions of ##G_{\delta}## and ##F_{\sigma}## sets may also be of interest in this context. One can then inquire about spaces where merely every ##F_{\sigma}## is closed.

EDIT: Found this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P-space which also answers
WWGD said:
Any interesting Alexandroff spaces other than discrete or finite spaces?
Amusing material.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: WWGD

Similar threads

  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
3K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
4K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
3K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
3K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
5K
  • · Replies 12 ·
Replies
12
Views
4K
Replies
16
Views
3K
  • · Replies 15 ·
Replies
15
Views
2K