The wide disparity between the decay tif a neutron and a protonme o

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the significant difference in decay times between neutrons and protons, exploring the underlying reasons for this disparity. Participants examine theoretical implications, conservation laws, and the stability of these baryons, with references to experimental observations and speculative theories.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants note that the neutron is heavier than the proton, allowing it to decay into a proton, an electron, and an antineutrino, while the proton, being the lightest baryon, cannot decay into anything lighter due to baryon number conservation.
  • There is a distinction made between the proton's lifetime being an experimental lower limit rather than an established decay time, with some suggesting that the proton may be completely stable.
  • Participants discuss the conservation of baryon number as a key factor in the proton's stability, while questioning why lepton and meson numbers are treated differently in terms of conservation.
  • One participant highlights the need to compare the neutron's decay rate with beta decay rates of other particles, suggesting a broader context for understanding decay processes.
  • Another participant emphasizes that while baryon number conservation is a reason for the proton's stability, there is no definitive explanation for why this conservation law holds in nature, and they mention the lack of detected baryon number violating interactions.
  • There is a mention of lepton number conservation in the Standard Model, with a caveat regarding neutrino behavior, while noting that "meson number" is not considered a conserved quantity.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the implications of baryon number conservation and the reasons behind the stability of protons. There is no consensus on the necessity of these conservation laws or their implications for particle decay.

Contextual Notes

Some discussions involve assumptions about the nature of conservation laws and their applicability, as well as the speculative nature of theories regarding proton decay. The conversation reflects ongoing uncertainties in particle physics.

noblegas
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Despite sharing similar physical properties(neutron and proton having little variation in masses, protons and neutron being made up of quarks, both elementary particles are held together by the strong force) why is the decay time for like a neutron 10 minutes and the decay time for like a proton 10^32 years? (Sorry the title of the thread is suppose to read: (the wide disparity between the decay time of a neutron and a proton)
 
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The neutron is heavier than the proton, and so can decay into the proton, an electron, and an antineutrino. The proton is the lightest baryon, so baryon number conservation prevents its decay into anything lighter. The number you quote for the proton is not its lifetime, but is an experimental lower limit on its lifetime. There are some speculative theories that predict proton decay with a long lifetime, but proton decay has never been observed. The proton may be completely stable.
 
clem said:
The neutron is heavier than the proton, and so can decay into the proton, an electron, and an antineutrino. The proton is the lightest baryon, so baryon number conservation prevents its decay into anything lighter. The number you quote for the proton is not its lifetime, but is an experimental lower limit on its lifetime. There are some speculative theories that predict proton decay with a long lifetime, but proton decay has never been observed. The proton may be completely stable.

Yes , it is the lightest baryon but it is not the lightest particle for leptons and mesons are generally much lighter than the mass of a typical baryon and leptons , a electron and positron for instance can combine and react together to form and decay into a photon. Yes it is not observed and it is the most stable particle , but why does the baryon number have to be conserved and but the lepton number and meson number are conserved? That cannot be the only explanaton for why protons are very stable and therefore tend not to decay, although conservation laws for lepton number and baryon number tend to be approximate rather than exact . Perhaps this is the reason why scientists have such a difficult time finding quarks by themselves in nature.
 
You should also compare the huge disparity between the decay rate of the neutron and the beta decay of any other particle. In this sense, the neutron and proton are alike. Check the plot here: http://dftuz.unizar.es/~rivero/research/nonstrong.jpg
 
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noblegas said:
Yes , it is the lightest baryon but it is not the lightest particle for leptons and mesons are generally much lighter than the mass of a typical baryon and leptons , a electron and positron for instance can combine and react together to form and decay into a photon. Yes it is not observed and it is the most stable particle , but why does the baryon number have to be conserved and but the lepton number and meson number are conserved? That cannot be the only explanaton for why protons are very stable and therefore tend not to decay, although conservation laws for lepton number and baryon number tend to be approximate rather than exact . Perhaps this is the reason why scientists have such a difficult time finding quarks by themselves in nature.

As clem pointed out, the fact that a proton can't decay without violating baryon number conservation is exactly the reason. A baryon number violating interaction has never been detected -- in the Standard Model there are none and the proton never decays -- and as you note there is a very stringent bound on any baryon number violating process that would lead to proton decay. I don't think I can give you a good reason why baryon number HAS to be conserved. You can say it's due to a symmetry of QCD, but there's no particular reason that this symmetry should be respected in nature. It just appears to be the case.

I believe lepton number is also exactly conserved in the Standard Model unless neutrinos turn out to be Majorana particles (each lepton family is not conserved because of neutrino oscillations, but I think total lepton number is still conserved.)

Note, however, that "meson number" is not a conserved quantity, or really even a useful concept as far as I'm aware.
 

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