Thermal Modeling: Predicting Water Temperature in an EPS Box

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around predicting the temperature range of water contained within an insulated expanded polystyrene (EPS) box, considering the influence of surrounding frozen and refrigerated water packs. The focus is on theoretical modeling and the necessary steps and formulas to estimate temperature changes over time, rather than solving the problem outright.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Homework-related

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that if there are ice packs and a water mixture outside the container, the temperature inside will remain at zero until all the ice melts.
  • Another participant notes that the internal water temperature typically starts around 6ºC, drops, and stabilizes slightly above 8ºC, indicating that it does not reach 0ºC.
  • The same participant expresses the need for a method to calculate temperature changes more efficiently than through real-time testing, emphasizing that the estimates do not need to be perfectly accurate.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants have not reached a consensus on a specific method or formula for predicting the temperature changes, and multiple perspectives on the behavior of the water temperature are presented.

Contextual Notes

The discussion lacks detailed assumptions regarding the thermal properties of the materials involved and the specific conditions under which the temperature predictions are to be made. There are also unresolved mathematical steps related to the modeling process.

Fancy Moses
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Hi all!

I need to figure out a way I can predict the temperature range a small container of water (neglect properties small container and focussing on the water itself) will hold within an insulated expanded polystyrene (EPS) box of a given thickness, over a period of time. We can assume the ambient temperature is constant outside the EPS box. Surrounding the small container of water will be some frozen (~ -20ºC) water packs and some refrigerated (~ 5ºC) water packs that will all fit inside the EPS box. So a 2D cross section would show the layers in this order (outermost to innermost): EPS, Frozen water pack, refrigerated water pack, container of water. All the dimensions would initially be provided. I have some testing to do and this would REALLY save me some time. I haven't done any thermo in a long time so I'm sort of struggling with this one. I'm not looking for anything solved, just the necessary steps required and formulas associated.

Thanks!
 
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if outside you have a ice pack+water mixtire, then the temperature of anything that is inside will be held at zero until all the ice melts.
 
Typically the temperature of the water inside starts around 6ºC, drops, then ends up a little over 8ºC. It never gets below 0. The water is surrounded by 5ºC gel packs, those have a few -20ºC ice packs around them and the everything is packed inside an EPS case. It never stays constant - I wish it would, it would make everything a lot easier. I'm asking for advice on how to calculate this because right now I do it with real time testing and I need to speed the process up. It doesn't have to be 100% accurate, just a relatively close estimate.
 
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