Thought Experiment on Dark Matter

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SUMMARY

This discussion explores the implications of dark matter through a thought experiment involving a large sphere filled uniformly with matter and a test mass at radius R1. Participants, including Rudi Van Nieuwenhove and Garth, highlight the paradox of distinguishing between an arbitrarily large radius and an infinite radius, noting that in an infinite universe, every point acts as a center of mass. The conversation references Einstein's cosmological constant and Newton's concept of 'absolute' space, concluding that neither perspective allows for a truly static universe, as any perturbation would lead to instability.

PREREQUISITES
  • Understanding of gravitational forces and mass distribution
  • Familiarity with concepts of infinite space and symmetry
  • Knowledge of Einstein's cosmological constant and its implications
  • Basic grasp of Newtonian physics and the concept of 'absolute' space
NEXT STEPS
  • Research the implications of Einstein's cosmological constant on modern cosmology
  • Study the concept of gravitational forces in infinite mass distributions
  • Explore the philosophical implications of a static versus dynamic universe
  • Investigate Newton's theories on space and their historical context
USEFUL FOR

Astronomers, physicists, and students of cosmology interested in the nature of dark matter and the dynamics of the universe will benefit from this discussion.

notknowing
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Thinking about the hypothetical dark matter, I came to the following (primitive) thought experiment. Consider a large sphere (say radius R) filled uniformily with matter and a small test mass located at radius R1. This test mass will experience a force to the centre of the sphere and the strenght of this force is proportional to the mass content of the sphere limited to R1 (the effect of the outer mass cancel outs, as is well known). Now, increase the radius R to a very large value. Again, the force should remain the same. In fact, one can make R arbitrarily large.
So, now consider an infinite space, filled uniformily with matter. The test mass will now not experience a force towards a specific direction, because of symmetry.
So, one gets the strange thing that there is a difference between R being arbitrary large and R being infinite. What does this mean ? :confused:


Rudi Van Nieuwenhove
 
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What does this mean ?
In the infinite universe there is no centre of mass. Every point is the centre of mass.

If you have a line with a sequence of numbers from x to y there is a number that is 'equidistant' from the end points x and y. In a line with an infinite sequence from - [itex]\infty[/itex] to +[itex]\infty[/itex] every point on the line is equidistant from the 'end points'.

Garth
 
Last edited:
notknowing said:
So, one gets the strange thing that there is a difference between R being arbitrary large and R being infinite. What does this mean ? :confused:
You're right, it is a paradox. If you think of an infinite universe in terms of a large sphere with radius tending to infinity then you deduce that a static universe is impossible - everything would collapse together. But if you think of the forces on an arbitrary particle then you find that everything can stay where it is.

Einstein's solution to the problem was to accept the first view, but to introduce a cosmological constant to prevent it. There's some evidence that Newton also considered this, but in the end went for the second point of view, and so insisted upon 'absolute' space.

Neither solution really allows a static universe, since small perturbations would always grow.

The real universe is not static, so the problem doesn't arise.
 

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