Time average value of Spin operator

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the time average value of the spin operator in the context of quantum mechanics, specifically relating to the weak field Zeeman effect as described in Griffiths' "Introduction to Quantum Mechanics." Participants explore the mathematical proof of the expression for the time-averaged spin operator and its projection onto the total angular momentum operator.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Exploratory

Main Points Raised

  • One participant references Griffiths' assertion that the time average value of the spin operator can be expressed as the projection of the spin operator onto the total angular momentum operator.
  • Another participant reiterates Griffiths' argument regarding the rapid precession of the spin operator and how transverse components average to zero, allowing for a time-averaged operator representation.
  • Some participants express satisfaction with Griffiths' explanation but seek a mathematical proof of the expression involving the Wigner-Eckart theorem, indicating uncertainty about its application.
  • One participant clarifies that they believe the average spin operator is an operator rather than an expectation value and questions the necessity of the Wigner-Eckart theorem for finding the expectation value.
  • Another participant suggests following Griffiths' equations for finding the expectation value without needing the Wigner-Eckart theorem.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the validity of Griffiths' explanation but express differing views on the need for a mathematical proof and the role of the Wigner-Eckart theorem. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the mathematical proof and the application of the theorem.

Contextual Notes

Participants mention specific equations from Griffiths' text, indicating reliance on those equations for deriving the expectation value. There is also an indication of uncertainty regarding the definitions and implications of the average spin operator and its relationship to the Wigner-Eckart theorem.

Muthumanimaran
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From the book Introduction to Quantum Mechanics by Griffiths,. In the section 6.4.1 (weak field zeeman effect) Griffiths tells that the time average value of S operator is just the projection of S onto J while finding the expectation value of J+S

$$S_{avg}=\frac{(S.J)J}{J^2}$$

How to prove this?
 
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Griffiths gives the standard argument in the vector model for the atom that when ##S## precesses rapidly about ##J##, the tranverse components time-average to zero and the operator can be replaced with a time-averaged operator which is the projection of ##S## on ##J##. Now if you have two regular old vectors, ##A## and ##B## with angle ##\theta## between them, you would write the projection of ##A## on ##B## as $$A_B=A\cos\theta=\frac{(\vec A \cdot \vec B)}{AB}A=\frac{(\vec A \cdot \vec B)}{B^2}B.$$
 
kuruman said:
Griffiths gives the standard argument in the vector model for the atom that when ##S## precesses rapidly about ##J##, the tranverse components time-average to zero and the operator can be replaced with a time-averaged operator which is the projection of ##S## on ##J##. Now if you have two regular old vectors, ##A## and ##B## with angle ##\theta## between them, you would write the projection of ##A## on ##B## as $$A_B=A\cos\theta=\frac{(\vec A \cdot \vec B)}{AB}A=\frac{(\vec A \cdot \vec B)}{B^2}B.$$
Im satisfied with the Griffith's explanation for the above expression, but out of curiosity I am looking for the mathematical proof of the same expression. While searching internet about this question, I saw "Wigner Eckart Theorem" could be used to find this expectation value, but I don't know how? Any idea how to do that?
 
Muthumanimaran said:
Im satisfied with the Griffith's explanation for the above expression, but out of curiosity I am looking for the mathematical proof of the same expression. While searching internet about this question, I saw "Wigner Eckart Theorem" could be used to find this expectation value, but I don't know how? Any idea how to do that?
I believe that ##\vec S_{avg}## is an operator, not an expectation value. If by "mathematical proof" you mean "Starting with an expression for the time-averaged spin operator, use the Wigner-Eckart theorem to show that $$
\vec{S}_{avg}=\frac{(\vec S \cdot \vec J)\vec J}{J^2}$$ in the weak field approximation", the answer is "no I don't have an idea how to do that."
However, you don't need the Wigner-Eckart theorem to find the expectation value ##<\vec S_{avg}>.~## Just follow Griffiths, equations 6-73 to 6.75.
 
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