Time independent perturbation theory

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SUMMARY

The discussion focuses on time-independent perturbation theory in atomic physics, specifically addressing the confusion surrounding the equation 5.1.6 and the implications of Dirac notation. Participants clarify that while the states |φ_n⟩ and |φ_m⟩ are orthogonal (⟨φ_n|φ_m⟩ = 0 for n ≠ m), the perturbation operator V can transform these states, leading to non-zero matrix elements ⟨φ_n|V|φ_m⟩. This transformation occurs because V is an operator that can yield a new state when applied to an eigenstate of the unperturbed Hamiltonian.

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Plaetean
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In my course notes for atomic physics, looking at time independent perturbation for the non-degenerate case, we have the following:

http://i.imgur.com/ao4ughk.png

However I am confused about the equation 5.1.6. We know that < phi n | phi m > = 0 for n =/= m, so shouldn't this mean that < phi n | V | phi m > = 0 as well? Would someone be able to explain why this is not the case? I feel like I must be missing some important aspect of Dirac notation here.

Thanks
 
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##|\phi_m\rangle## is the eigenstate of the unperturbed Hamiltonian, that is, the original Hamiltonian before the presence of the perturbation ##V##. This means ##|\phi_m\rangle## doesn't necessarily happen to be the eigenstate of ##V## as well.
 
blue_leaf77 said:
##|\phi_m\rangle## is the eigenstate of the unperturbed Hamiltonian, that is, the original Hamiltonian before the presence of the perturbation ##V##. This means ##|\phi_m\rangle## doesn't necessarily happen to be the eigenstate of ##V## as well.
Could you elaborate a bit?
 
First, I would like to ask why do you think that ##\langle \phi_n|V| \phi_m \rangle = 0## for ##m\neq n##?
 
blue_leaf77 said:
First, I would like to ask why do you think that ##\langle \phi_n|V| \phi_m \rangle = 0## for ##m\neq n##?
Because different states are orthogonal, so ##\langle \phi_n | \phi_m \rangle = 0## for ## m\neq n##
 
That's the hole where you fall, ##V## is an operator, it's not just number. Operating ##V## on ##|\phi_m\rangle## will generally result in another state, i.e. ##V|\phi_m\rangle = |\psi\rangle##, where ##|\psi\rangle## may not very often be connected with ##|\phi_m\rangle## by a mere constant prefactor.
 
blue_leaf77 said:
That's the hole where you fall, ##V## is an operator, it's not just number. Operating ##V## on ##|\phi_m\rangle## will generally result in another state, i.e. ##V|\phi_m\rangle = |\psi\rangle##, where ##|\psi\rangle## may not very often be connected with ##|\phi_m\rangle## by a mere constant prefactor.
Excellent, thank you very much, that makes sense now. So the operator can change the basis vectors themselves?
 
Plaetean said:
So the operator can change the basis vectors themselves?
Yes, because ##V## can be any operator.
 
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