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A graduate student is accused of using ChatGPT to answer questions on a test leading to his dismissal and subsequent lawsuit and everyone is watching:
To use or NOT to use ChatGPT that is the Question Lawsuit
Click For Summary
Discussion Overview
The discussion centers around the implications of using AI tools like ChatGPT in academic settings, particularly in relation to a lawsuit involving a graduate student accused of using such tools during a test. Participants explore the broader societal and philosophical impacts of AI on education and labor, drawing parallels to historical events like the Industrial Revolution.
Discussion Character
- Debate/contested
- Conceptual clarification
- Historical
Main Points Raised
- Some participants express skepticism about the student's defense, suggesting that the lawsuit is more about the implications of AI use rather than its legality.
- One participant shares personal experiences with problem-solving in mathematics, arguing that reliance on AI could hinder fundamental skills necessary for understanding complex problems.
- Another participant raises concerns about the existential implications of AI, likening the current situation to the Industrial Revolution and questioning humanity's future role in a world increasingly influenced by AI.
- Historical references are made to the Industrial Revolution, discussing how automation led to job losses and societal upheaval, drawing parallels to current technological advancements.
- Some participants suggest that the evolution of AI may render traditional skills, such as coding, less relevant, as AI can produce complex outputs rapidly.
- There is a philosophical discussion about the nature of work and creativity, with references to weavers as early programmers, suggesting that AI may disrupt its direct competition in the labor market.
Areas of Agreement / Disagreement
Participants do not reach a consensus on the implications of AI use in education and its broader societal effects. Multiple competing views are presented, with some advocating for the benefits of AI in learning, while others express concern about its impact on fundamental skills and job security.
Contextual Notes
The discussion reflects a range of perspectives on the role of AI in education and society, with participants drawing on personal experiences and historical analogies. There are unresolved questions regarding the balance between technological advancement and the preservation of essential skills.
- #2
Hornbein
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I can't be bothered to watch all of that but I expect he's going to lose that lawsuit. It seems to me that this thread is mislabeled. His defense is that he didn't use ChatGPT, that it's all a coincidence, not that using it on a test is OK.
Some universities such as Cal Tech have a tradition of take home exams, even with time limits. That's not the norm though, and you know why.
When I do hard geometry it's all with the subconscious. I get the problem firmly in mind. If I start going in circles then make an effort to not think about it. Sometimes the solution will pop in the next day. That only works because I know the basic relations needed for the solution. If I had to look up one of those in a text then this method would fail. Could AI solve such a problem? In my very limited experience I say no unless the answer is in the literature already.
Even today I do lots of quick estimations of numbers in my head. If I had always relied on a calculator then I couldn't do that. That would be disadvantageous. I think calculators should not be allowed in tests of basic math. You have to know how to do it yourself or you will often become lost in the woods, not realizing when your answer is way off and so forth.
Even back in 1990 when I was a teaching assistance some students would do their homework with the aid of Mathematica. I was vaguely aware of this but thought this was OK. It's not going to help them on a test, they should come to me to teach them how to do it themselves, and if they don't that's their problem. If ChatGPT can teach them, so much the better. If Chat gets it wrong their homework will be marked down. The student will know and can do something about it.
Some universities such as Cal Tech have a tradition of take home exams, even with time limits. That's not the norm though, and you know why.
When I do hard geometry it's all with the subconscious. I get the problem firmly in mind. If I start going in circles then make an effort to not think about it. Sometimes the solution will pop in the next day. That only works because I know the basic relations needed for the solution. If I had to look up one of those in a text then this method would fail. Could AI solve such a problem? In my very limited experience I say no unless the answer is in the literature already.
Even today I do lots of quick estimations of numbers in my head. If I had always relied on a calculator then I couldn't do that. That would be disadvantageous. I think calculators should not be allowed in tests of basic math. You have to know how to do it yourself or you will often become lost in the woods, not realizing when your answer is way off and so forth.
Even back in 1990 when I was a teaching assistance some students would do their homework with the aid of Mathematica. I was vaguely aware of this but thought this was OK. It's not going to help them on a test, they should come to me to teach them how to do it themselves, and if they don't that's their problem. If ChatGPT can teach them, so much the better. If Chat gets it wrong their homework will be marked down. The student will know and can do something about it.
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- #3
erobz
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The bed has been made by science and engineering…It’s Pandora’s box. I think we are on the verge of an existential crisis of figuring out what is humanity’s role in the future of humanity. The analog to the Industrial Revolution is here for the other component of human purpose…thought. There is thinking and doing. Dr Frankenstein’s monster will soon be alive. Who do we blame for what is happening?!? It’s Dr Frankenstein.
The other day my uncle in his 60’s had GROK write 432 lines of flawless code in a matter of seconds by simply telling it what he wanted. He’s not a programmer. He is involved in government research for a long time. He says the standard is like average 8 lines of code a day after debugging from software engineers. I’m pretty sure he works with some of the best…I guess the whole “learn to code” thing is over. Why bother
?
The other day my uncle in his 60’s had GROK write 432 lines of flawless code in a matter of seconds by simply telling it what he wanted. He’s not a programmer. He is involved in government research for a long time. He says the standard is like average 8 lines of code a day after debugging from software engineers. I’m pretty sure he works with some of the best…I guess the whole “learn to code” thing is over. Why bother
?
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- #4
Hornbein
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The industrial revolution began with automated looms, causing weavers to lose their income. This contributed to 1848's partial revolutions in many European countries. Today's German flag was the flag of the rebellion.
"Sabotage" comes from Frenchmen throwing sabots [shoes] into automated looms.
Liberal reforms were won. Revolutionaries who feared the state and/or wanted a freer life left for Wisconsin, leading to the strong German presence there today, prowess in the brewing of beer, and the Green Bay Packers.
"Sabotage" comes from Frenchmen throwing sabots [shoes] into automated looms.
Liberal reforms were won. Revolutionaries who feared the state and/or wanted a freer life left for Wisconsin, leading to the strong German presence there today, prowess in the brewing of beer, and the Green Bay Packers.
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- #5
erobz
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Interesting! Weavers were basically programmers too I believe in the philosophical sense. It seems A.I. takes out its direct competition first!Hornbein said:
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- #6
Hornbein
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Toyota was originally a loom company and still is. I've been to the Toyota museum in Nagoya which was one of the most amazing things I ever have seen. The coolest machines retire to this building. You can watch them work. One of the looms carried the threads on jets of water. There's a ten ton press which is massive as can be. Push a button and watch it go.erobz said:
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