Total no. of positive integer ordered pairs (n,r)

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on finding the total number of positive integer ordered pairs \((n,r)\) such that \(\binom{n}{r} = 120\). Participants explore various methods to identify these pairs, including enumeration and algebraic manipulation, while considering the properties of binomial coefficients.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants identify \((n,r) = (120,1)\) and \((120,119)\) as valid pairs and seek to find additional pairs.
  • One participant suggests building Pascal's triangle to enumerate potential pairs, indicating that there may be fewer matches than expected.
  • Another participant mentions finding pairs such as \((5,1)\) and \((16,2)\) through guessing, requesting further explanation of the method.
  • A different approach is presented, breaking down the equation \(\frac{n!}{r!(n-r)!}=120\) and analyzing it case by case for different values of \(r\).
  • Participants discuss the identity \(\binom{n}{r} = \binom{n}{n-r}\) to derive additional pairs from those already found.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the pairs identified so far but do not reach a consensus on the completeness of the solution or the methods used to find all possible pairs. Multiple competing methods and viewpoints remain present in the discussion.

Contextual Notes

Some participants express confusion regarding the methods suggested and the reasoning behind certain calculations. There is also a lack of clarity on the completeness of the enumeration process and the implications of the binomial coefficient properties.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be useful for those interested in combinatorial mathematics, particularly in understanding binomial coefficients and their applications in finding ordered pairs.

juantheron
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Calculation of Total no. of positive integer ordered pairs $(n,r)$ in $\displaystyle \binom{n}{r} = 120$

My Try:: Clearly $\displaystyle \binom{n}{r} = 120 \Rightarrow \binom{120}{1} = \binom{120}{119} = 120$

So $(n,r) = (120,1)\;\;,(120,119)$ are positive integer ordered pairs which satisfy the given equation.

Now we will calculate for other positive integer ordered pairs whether it is exists or not.

So $\displaystyle \binom{n}{r} = \frac{n!}{r! \cdot (n-r)!} = 2^3 \times 3 \times 5\Rightarrow \frac{n!}{r! .\cdot (n-r)! \cdot 5} = 2^3 \cdot 3$

So Largest prime factors of $120$ is $5$. So $\displaystyle n\geq 5$

Now for $r$. Here $ 1 \leq r < 119$ and $r \leq \frac{n}{2}$

So my Question is How can I calculate other positive ordered pairs.

So please help me

Thanks
 
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jacks said:
Calculation of Total no. of positive integer ordered pairs $(n,r)$ in $\displaystyle \binom{n}{r} = 120$

My Try:: Clearly $\displaystyle \binom{n}{r} = 120 \Rightarrow \binom{120}{1} = \binom{120}{119} = 120$

So $(n,r) = (120,1)\;\;,(120,119)$ are positive integer ordered pairs which satisfy the given equation.

Now we will calculate for other positive integer ordered pairs whether it is exists or not.

So $\displaystyle \binom{n}{r} = \frac{n!}{r! \cdot (n-r)!} = 2^3 \times 3 \times 5\Rightarrow \frac{n!}{r! .\cdot (n-r)! \cdot 5} = 2^3 \cdot 3$

So Largest prime factors of $120$ is $5$. So $\displaystyle n\geq 5$

Now for $r$. Here $ 1 \leq r < 119$ and $r \leq \frac{n}{2}$

So my Question is How can I calculate other positive ordered pairs.

So please help me

Thanks

Hi jacks! :)

Have you tried to simply enumerate them?
That is, build up Pascal's triangle until you can tell there won't be any matches any more?
You may find there are fewer matches than you might think...

\begin{matrix}
&&&1\\
&&1&&1\\
&1&&2&&1\\
1&&3&&3&&1 \\
&&&\dots
\end{matrix}
 
Thanks Moderator for Help.

But I did not understand it.

Using Guessing I have found $\displaystyle \binom{5}{1} = \binom{16}{2} = 120$

Would you like to explain me in Detail.

Thanks
 
jacks said:
Thanks Moderator for Help.

But I did not understand it.

Using Guessing I have found $\displaystyle \binom{5}{1} = \binom{16}{2} = 120$

Would you like to explain me in Detail.

Thanks

Hello Jacks,
(nCr) = product of r cosecuive numbers (n-r+1) to n/ r!

r =1 1 number = 120
r =2 , product of 2 consecutive numbers = 240 = 15 * 16 so n = 16 so (16c2)
n =3 product of 3 cosecutive numbers = 120* 6 = 720 ( 8 * 9 * 10 = 720)
so (10c3)
n =4. product of 4 cosecutive = 120 * 24 it can be seen if product esists so on
 
kaliprasad has given you a good method. I wanted to present it in a slightly different format. Begin with:

$${n \choose r}=120$$

Using the definition of the binomial coefficient, we may write:

$$\frac{n!}{r!(n-r)!}=120$$

$$\frac{n!}{(n-r)!}=120r!$$

Now keep in mind the identity $${n \choose r}={n \choose n-r}$$, so that when you find an ordered pair solution, this will given you another. Now, let's take them case by case on $r$:

i) $r=1$

$$\frac{n!}{(n-1)!}=120\cdot1!$$

$$\frac{n(n-1)!}{(n-1)!}=120\cdot1$$

$$n=120$$

Hence, we have found: $(n,r)=(120,1),\,(120,119)$

ii) $r=2$

$$\frac{n!}{(n-2)!}=120\cdot2!$$

$$\frac{n(n-1)(n-2)!}{(n-2)!}=120\cdot2$$

$$n(n-1)=240$$

$$(n-16)(n+15)=0$$

Discard the negative root, and we have: $(n,r)=(16,2),\,(16,14)$

Now proceed as long as $r$ is smaller than that which you have previously found. For example, the next $r$ is 3, and since this is smaller than 14, you want to continue.
 
jacks said:
Thanks Moderator for Help.

But I did not understand it.

Using Guessing I have found $\displaystyle \binom{5}{1} = \binom{16}{2} = 120$

Would you like to explain me in Detail.

Thanks

Pascal's Triangle gives all binomials.
At the top of the triangle, you have $\binom{0}{0}=1$.
The second row contains $\binom{1}{0}=1$ and $\binom{1}{1}=1$.
Each of the numbers is the sum of the two numbers above it.

Continue the triangle until you have found all occurrences of 120.
 

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