Transposing a line with known references

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the problem of calculating the new coordinates of points A1 and A2 in a 4-bar linkage system after a rotation and translation from an initial position to a new position. Participants explore methods for transposing these points based on known references and transformations in a design context, specifically using Excel for modeling.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant describes the challenge of determining the new coordinates of joints A1 and A2 after moving bar B to a new position, given their relationship to bar B at the initial position.
  • Another participant suggests using a transfer matrix to calculate the coordinates at Position 2, provided the translation and rotation are known.
  • A subsequent reply indicates that the transfer matrix yields unexpected values due to the rotation not being around the origin, leading to confusion in the results.
  • Another participant advises that to correctly apply the rotation matrix, the coordinates of Position 1 should first be translated to the origin of rotation before applying the rotation.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the application of the transfer matrix and the necessity of translating coordinates to the origin before rotation. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the best approach to achieve accurate results.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations regarding the assumptions made about the origin of rotation and the specific relationships between the points and the bars, which may affect the calculations. The discussion does not resolve these mathematical steps.

_Bd_
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Hi, I have a question for a desing I am working on. I want to model it in excel and I am having a hard time finding out how to transpose some lines: Let Bar B's position and dimensions be known, and I want bar B to be set in 3 positions, I can however apply joints to anyplace near or at bar B, so that I can get a 4-bar-linkage-system that can move as I desire. so for example point A1(x1,y1) and A2(x2,y2) are the joints that are going to hold on to bar B, how do I calculate the new coordinates of A1 and A2 at position 2 if I only know their relationship to bar B at position 1?

I hope this image helps:
http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/4945/thingoz.png

http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/4945/thingoz.png

At position 1 i know everything

At position 2 I only know the coordinates of the bottom bar (the red bar) I know where its two end points are, I know its angle (theta) with the horizontal and I know its lenght.
points A1 and A2 have not changed their position with respect to the bottom bar, but they have moved in the plane, how do I calculate their new position?

thank you!

NOTE: THERE IS ROTATION AND TRANSLATION! (FROM POS 1 to POS 2)
 
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If you know the coordinates at Position 1, and you know the translation and rotation to Position 2, the coordinates of the bar at Position 2 can be calculated by means of a transfer matrix.

The following link shows the procedure:
http://ugweb.cs.uAlberta.ca/~c201/F07/resources/Presentations/homogeneous_coords.pdf
 
The thing about that is that I get weird values when I use that matrix, because they are not rotating around the origin so it creates weird
 
Then you need to translate the coordinates of Position 1 to the origin of rotation, then apply the rotation matrix.
 

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