Travel to another moon/planet/gravitational body

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the practical considerations and theoretical aspects of traveling between gravitational bodies, specifically focusing on the iso-gravitational point between the Earth and the Moon. Participants explore the trade-offs between fuel efficiency and travel time, particularly in the context of manned missions.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that to minimize fuel use, one would ideally want to cross the iso-gravitational point at the slowest possible speed, theoretically spending an extended time at that point.
  • Another participant points out that practical considerations, such as time constraints and crew safety, complicate the journey, necessitating a balance between fuel expenditure and timely arrival.
  • A suggestion is made to refer to Apollo flight data for insights into the complexities of lunar travel, indicating that there are many more variables than initially considered.
  • One participant introduces the concept of traveling along iso-potential surfaces and references the Interplanetary Transport Network (ITN) as a relevant framework for understanding energy-efficient trajectories.
  • Another participant clarifies that the ITN utilizes Lagrange points rather than iso-gravitational points, emphasizing the dynamic interplay of forces involved in such travel.
  • A further elaboration is made on the concept of stable and unstable manifolds in multi-body systems, suggesting that the original concept of iso-potential surfaces is a useful analogy for understanding these dynamics.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the best approach to inter-body travel, with some focusing on iso-gravitational points and others advocating for Lagrange points and manifold concepts. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the optimal strategies for minimizing fuel use and travel time.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the complexity of the variables involved in space travel, the need for a deeper understanding of dynamic systems, and the potential for differing interpretations of gravitational and potential concepts.

season89
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After looking at where the isogravitational point between the Earth and the moon was, I thought about practically what sort of speed you would want to cross it at.

Of course, if time is not a factor, I imagine you would ideally want to expend as little fuel possible in getting from planet to planet (or planet to moon etc. etc.). Therefore you would want to cross this point at which the gravitational pull from both bodies cancel each other out at the slowest possible rate. I guess this would theoretically mean that you would spend eternity at the point.

In a practical sense though time is a factor, and more importantly if you have manned mission then there would be a trade off between the amount of fuel spent on getting to (and past) this point and completing the journey in a timely manner so that your crew don't starve. This brings up the other problem of time spent in space proportional to the amount of food (payload) needed in the shuttle, thereby requiring more fuel achieve escape velocity from the Earth.

Question:
I was wondering if anyone knew (for example on journeys to the moon) what speed at which this iso-gravitational point would be passed so as to minimise both fuel use and time spent on the journey. And if so, would there be a formula based on the distance between, and sizes of, both bodies. Finally I would love to find out whether there is a proposed limit to how far manned journeys could be (and the crew still be alive at the end of the journey).

Thanks,
Warwick
 
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Seeing as how journeys to the Moon have been done - why not just look up the Apollo flight data?

You'll find that there are many more variables than you are considering.
Usually the problem is done in terms of Hohmann transfer orbits... which will be what you want to look up as your next step.
 
ITN exploits Lagrange points rather than the isogravitational points to minimize the energy to change trajectories. It's a valid observation though. What you are actually doing is balancing the dynamic play of forces (as momenta and potentials). The restraining factor - as OP says - becomes time rather than energy.
 
I used the term iso-potential to give the OP a familiar concept to recognize. A more accurate description could be "travelling along tubular shaped stable and unstable manifolds that are linking together different Lagrange points in a multi-body system".

Section 2.1 of [1] gives an explanation of how these surfaces come about, but it is probably difficult to understand the nature of this without knowledge of dynamic system analysis (e.g. the concept and theory of stable and unstable manifolds). If the OP where to think of this as similar to traveling along iso-potential surfaces, he would not be too far of the mark. If he were to include rotation in the potential he would be conceptually quite close (compare with the plot of "effective potential" on [2]).[1] http://www.gg.caltech.edu/~mwl/publications/papers/lunarGateway.pdf
[2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lagrangian_point
 

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