Triplet State Explanation for Helium Electron Transitions

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the explanation of helium electron transitions, particularly focusing on the triplet state and its implications for understanding the helium spectrum. Participants explore concepts related to electron spins, energy levels, and the differences between helium and hydrogen in terms of quantum mechanics.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Homework-related

Main Points Raised

  • One participant seeks a simpler explanation of helium electron transitions, expressing difficulty with existing resources that focus on equations.
  • Another participant explains that helium's two electrons can have anti-parallel spins in the ground state (singlet) or aligned spins in different energy levels (triplet).
  • Clarifications are made regarding the definitions of singlet and triplet states, with emphasis on the spins being paired or unpaired.
  • Participants discuss the role of the orbital quantum number (l) in energy levels, noting that it affects helium differently than hydrogen, which is said to have equal energy levels for electrons in the same principal quantum number (n).
  • There is confusion about the differences in energy levels between hydrogen and helium, with requests for further explanation on the topic.
  • Participants inquire about the terms "symmetric" and "anti-symmetric" in relation to the wave functions of electron spins, with one participant seeking clarification on how these terms relate to the spin states of electrons.
  • One participant expresses concern about being too demanding in their questions, while another reassures them that the subject matter is complex and requires time to understand.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the explanations of energy levels and the implications of quantum numbers for helium versus hydrogen. There is ongoing confusion and requests for clarification on several points, indicating that multiple views and uncertainties remain.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty regarding the definitions and implications of quantum states, as well as the differences in energy levels between hydrogen and helium. The discussion highlights the complexity of quantum mechanics and the challenges faced by learners in grasping these concepts.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be useful for high school students studying quantum mechanics, particularly those interested in atomic structure and electron transitions in helium and hydrogen.

MonsieurWise
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I am trying to draw a diagram of Helium electron transitions based on its spectrum. I found out some of the transitions have to be explained in Triplet state. I searched on the internet but all I get are equations...(like the one in Wikipedia with weird brackets, like "(" and then ">" ) and talk about dimensions.
Is there any explanation that a high school student like me can understand...? Thank you very much ^^
 
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Oh, thank you very much! A great website indeed! It also answer some of my questions...
There are still something I don't understand, but I hope I will after examine the website...
So far, it is mean that "anti-parallel" mean like two electron in the s-orbital that have spin up and spin down, is called "Singlet"? And "parallel" mean like one electron lay in the s-orbital and the other one in p-orbital, both have to have spin-up, thus move in the same direction and lower in energy called "Triplet"? Am I still on track, or I'm lost already...?
Oh, and by the way...Why does the orbital quantum number l contribute to big atom energy level, but do nothing to Hydrogen energy level?
Thank you.
 
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"anti-parallel" spins are opposite: one up and one down.
"parallel" spins are the same, either up-up or down-down (in the absence of a magnetic field, the two combinations will have the same energy, so the actual orientation isn't important)

A singlet state means all spins are paired and the total spin, S = 0.
A doublet means a single unpaired spin and S=1/2
A triplet means two unpaired (parallel) spins and S = 1.
And so forth.
(In the particular case of Helium, there are also the historic terms 'ortho-helium' for singlet helium and 'para-helium' for triplet helium. )

The Pauli exclusion principle dictates that two electrons cannot be in the same orbital and have the same spin.

Oh, and by the way...Why does the orbital quantum number l contribute to big atom energy level, but do nothing to Hydrogen energy level?

It has just as much to do with hydrogen as with any other atom. I already said in an answer to another one of your posts that the 'n' in the Bohr atomic model is not the 'n' that is the principal quantum number. Are you confusing these again?
 
I think I confused these again... but somehow I couldn't remember your earlier post. Could you post it again if you have some time? I couldn't find it anywhere...>.<.
But when I see the energy diagram of Hydrogen compared to Helium, with n as the y-asix in the left and orbital quantum number l (s,p,d...) as the x axis, like in the website
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu...um/helium.html
That Bob gave me, I see the effect of l (s,p,d...) on the level of Helium (either energy go up a bit or down a bit in the same n level), when in Hydrogen level it does not affect at all (all the electron in the same n level have same energy, regardless of l).
So I'm getting more confused...>.<. Could you explain the difference again...?
And could you also explain the 2 term "symmetric" and "anti-symmetric" of the 2 spins?
Am I too demanding...^^'?
Thank you very much
 
Last edited by a moderator:
MonsieurWise said:
But when I see the energy diagram of Hydrogen compared to Helium, with n as the y-asix in the left and orbital quantum number l (s,p,d...) as the x axis, like in the website
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu...um/helium.html
That Bob gave me, I see the effect of l (s,p,d...) on the level of Helium (either energy go up a bit or down a bit in the same n level), when in Hydrogen level it does not affect at all (all the electron in the same n level have same energy, regardless of l).

Well, no, they have a different energy depending on l, even in hydrogen, as explained http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/quantum/orbdep.html" the corresponding diagram (somewhat exaggerated - obviously not to scale) for hydrogen (plus some lines showing possible transitions), with l on the x-axis and everything. The difference between the levels with different l increases with more electrons, this is because of how electrons interact with each other (called spin-orbit coupling).

And could you also explain the 2 term "symmetric" and "anti-symmetric" of the 2 spins?

Well, 'symmetric'/'anti-symmetric' is a description of what what the wave function looks like, or rather, a condition put upon the spatial wave function, which depends on the spin state. It is 'symmetric' if it doesn't change sign (+/-) when you exchange the location of the electrons and 'anti-symmetric' if it does. For a two-electron system, the (spatial) wave function must be symmetric if it's a singlet and anti-symmetric if it's a triplet state.

Am I too demanding...^^'?

No, but the subject is. Remember, it took the world's leading physicists almost 50 years from the discovery of the Balmer series until they'd fully understood the hydrogen spectrum, and they had to completely revolutionize physics by inventing quantum theory to do so! So you really need to learn quantum physics to fully understand what's going on. And that's not something one does overnight.
 
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Thank you!
 

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