Twitter Worker Making $160K Struggling to Survive?

[jobyts]

You're double taxing now. You don't pay income tax on money you pay in other taxes.

Thanks for pointing out this.

 

[Vanadium 50]

You don't pay income tax on money you pay in other taxes.

It's more complicated than that. You can deduct state income tax, or state sales tax, but not both. This is assuming the AMT hasn't kicked in. It probably hasn't for the fellow this article is about because he's renting, but it might well if he buys a house.

 

[MarneMath]

This is a bit absurd but it's a rather common refrain I hear from my peers. I recently moved to NYC since my wife missed her hometown. One main thing that boggles my mind is how quickly your view of what's "lavish" can change when you are constantly around wealthier people. My wife and I are fortunate enough to be able to afford a three bedroom apartment in NYC and we pay a lot in rent, but we are both six figure earners.

I was talking to a coworker explaining that my wife and I do not go out much because we are paying for private school for my daughter. So instead of going to broadway shows we watch west side story on this VCR we've had for 20 years now. He looked at me and literally said, "it's ok, you'll eventually get financial stability if you keep working here". I raised my eyebrow and became rather confused. I'm able to afford a three bedroom apartment in the City, send my child to private school, max out my 401k and IRA and I haven't reached financial stability?

I imagine this twitter engineer is tempted to present the imagine of wealth and success and this occurs a lot of cost for the privilege to say "I live in neighborhood xyz". It just sickens me to hear people like that complain.

 

[Vanadium 50]

a shiny new Audi

Hey! I like my shiny new Audi! (A 2016 A3 e-tron)

Another way to look at this is, with the complaint that $3000 for housing is too much, remove it. Then the complaint is that $127,000 a year isn't enough to live on in San Francisco, even if your housing is free. Does anyone take that seriously?

 

[kyphysics]

Another story: http://www.cnbc.com/2017/03/03/face...-with-rents-ask-mark-zuckerberg-for-help.html

Facebook engineers struggling with sky-high rents ask Mark Zuckerberg for help

Ester Bloom
22 Hours Ago

You might think that, once you get through all the interviews and score a coveted position as a white-collar employee of a billion-dollar company, you'll be set. But if your job means living in the Bay Area, you may find that, even with a generous salary, you're having a hard time getting by.

According to a write up in The Guardian, well-paid tech workers are struggling to pay for housing since the rents in and around San Francisco "by one measure are now the highest in the world." In 2015, according to SmartAsset.com, the cost of living there was "62.6% higher than the U.S. average." In 2016, the same site found that you'd need to make at least $216,129 a year to afford the rent on an average two-bedroom apartment.

Recently, some employees went so far as to ask their boss for help: "Facebook engineers last year even raised the issue with founder Mark Zuckerberg, asking whether the company could subsidize their rents to make their living situation more affordable, according to an executive at the company who has since departed."

With that salary, I'd be living like a king elsewhere!

This might actually be a thing people!

 

[Bandersnatch]

the same site found that you'd need to make at least $216,129 a year to afford the rent on an average two-bedroom apartment.

They calculate how much you need on the assumption that your rent takes 28% of income, and so you need to earn ~3-4 times the rent to not be financially strained. That's just silly. All spending does not scale with rent. According to their metric, if I earn 1 billion quid a year and decide to spend half of it to rent a lavish, outrageous, pants-on-head crazy overpriced mansion, then I'd be in the struggling bracket, since the 500 million left is merely half my income.

 

[Andy SV]

These people have no idea how much they have.
I make less in a year then they have leftover after the are bills are paid
Yet my mortgage is almost done I own all of my vehicles and I have no CC dept
It's not that hard to get by

 

[Evo]

These people have no idea how much they have.
I make less in a year then they have leftover after the are bills are paid
Yet my mortgage is almost done I own all of my vehicles and I have no CC dept
It's not that hard to get by

They could live a bit farther out in the suburbs and pay substantially less, that's what I did when I lived in expensive areas. Sure if I lived next to the office, I'd be broke, but because I had a brain, I moved to where it was affordable and realized I'd have to get up a couple of hours earlier each morning for the commute. It sucked, but it was affordable.

 

[nuuskur]

They could live a bit farther out in the suburbs and pay substantially less, that's what I did when I lived in expensive areas. Sure if I lived next to the office, I'd be broke, but because I had a brain, I moved to where it was affordable and realized I'd have to get up a couple of hours earlier each morning for the commute. It sucked, but it was affordable.

HAD ? Has something changed by now? :D

I manage to save 300 euro on average of my semestrly stipend and this "twitter employee" is struggling to scrape for rent? I don't buy it. Has to be a joke or it is someone who can't do simple arithmetic :(

 

[Greg Bernhardt]

The federal tax for someone making $160K is $20K

All the online calcs I've used report between $33k-40k

 

[russ_watters]

Hey! I like my shiny new Audi! (A 2016 A3 e-tron)

You can drive whatever you want, as long as you don't simultaneously drive something expensive and complain about not having enough money! That's partly where the people who are the subject of the thread go wrong:
1. Know where you actually stand.
2. Own your choices.

 

[Vanadium 50]

All the online calcs I've used report between $33k-40k

At $160K with zero deductions and zero exemptions (i.e. an unrealistic upper limit), federal tax is $38K. Don't know where they get $40K. Trimming down to $20K is not impossible.

 

[Greg Bernhardt]

At $160K with zero deductions and zero exemptions (i.e. an unrealistic upper limit), federal tax is $38K. Don't know where they get $40K. Trimming down to $20K is not impossible.

True, but most will take the standard deduction with a little help from loan interests and IRA contributions. FICA and state tax will take further cuts.

 

[Andy SV]

It's actually pretty easy to live well and cheap
just do it backwards buy a car with cash and then make payments to yourself until it's used up and buy the next one
Don't drive to the gym and pay money to sweat. walk to the ice cream stand and buy a sunday. You're morning coffee should cost ten minutes not ten dollars and it will prolly taste better if you spend the time any way. Do you really need to know to the minute when the baby giraffe is going to be born leave the internet at home . Why spend twelve dollars on a book that's free at the library and cheaper
In a tablet

 

[Fervent Freyja]

This particular person is probably claiming the HOH deduction and 2 dependents, with his wife being a stay-at-home mom with 2 kids. Still, with that income, those deductions won't make much of a dent in the taxes he owes at federal or state levels. It's very possible he's paying around $10k a year for family health insurance coverage, or more. The average child costs $10K a year, it's likely in this situation that they are spending double on each child. Even if his wife's personal expenses are only $10K a year, that's $40K a year just on personal expenses and health insurance for 3 other people. Maybe $40K towards taxes, other cuts, and retirement. With having $80K left before paying rent, I can see how it would get difficult when money isn't being managed properly, that applies in any income bracket, but still should be plenty for 4 to not have to struggle to survive on. A bad part of recommending that he move further out is that if he commutes 3 hours a day, that's 3 less hours with the family each day, which makes a huge difference with young children. If he arrives home at 6pm and they go to bed at 8pm, that's 2 hours a day. I think the person is making excuses, really. They have technical skills that can translate into a decent income worldwide, even working from home. It shouldn't be that hard for this person to find a job making 3X less in an area with a lower cost of living while still being able to give the same support and living standards. It's kind of repulsive that a person would go so far to complain about something like this.

 

[russ_watters]

True, but most will take the standard deduction with a little help from loan interests and IRA contributions. FICA and state tax will take further cuts.

Well, the home ownership rate is still 62%, so there are a lot also taking the mortgage interest deduction. It's a biggie.

Erm, we don't really have to speculate. Much of the data is published:
https://taxfoundation.org/how-much-do-people-pay-taxes/

So the average federal income tax rate for a filer who makes between $100k and $200k is 8.8%. So for $160k, that's $14,000. FICA, state and local might add another $10k (remember the FICA upper limit).

 

[Fervent Freyja]

8.8% cannot be right. Seriously Russ, you have to be paying more than that yourself! This calculator shows the federal tax alone would be $34,869.75, which is around 21%!

 

[russ_watters]

8.8% cannot be right. Seriously Russ, you have to be paying more than that yourself! This calculator shows the federal tax alone would be $34,869.75, which is around 21%!

That appears to only show the average standard deduction. I sure hope anyone making $160k is maxing out their 401k ($18k) and a good fraction of those people have houses and mortgage payments (various), deductible health insurance, property taxes, etc.

[edit] I just checked my tax return and my tax as a percentage of gross income was about 15% -- might want to make sure you aren't looking at adjusted gross or taxible income, both of which are much lower than gross.

 

[Greg Bernhardt]

Just to note if someone has a house, real estate taxes can be rough. I live in a city with extremely high taxes. I would imagine San Fran is very high too.

 

[WWGD]

Car $800 a month? Even including insurance for a car for San Francisco (it's hilly) should not come close to that unless he's had so many wrecks/tickets he's almost uninsurable. Something's out of whack.

Parking, repairs, tickets... Estimated(Avg.) yearly cost of maintaining a car in the US is around $10,000. Monthly parking can easily go over $1,000.

 

[WWGD]

And my point was that with respect: you do live an incredibly privileged life which from many people's perspective could be considered lavish. You have a large pension fund, you own property and you have savings in the form of a college fund with five figures worth of money in it. Sure maybe you're not living a constant life of consumerist luxury because you're making smart choices, but I don't consider this in any way struggling and reiterate the point made earlier that it would be almost insulting to suggest it's so given how much of the population enjoy so much less.

What is sad is that what you're describing is the standard middle class cultural narrative (I am from the UK but I suspect the US and UK are in line on this one). Forty years ago home ownership, savings, pension funds etc were all pretty standard even if just one partner was working in a standard job. Now, especially in cities, this is a pipe dream for anyone who isn't earning significantly over the average.

I understand it is a lifestyle many would envy, but why call it privileged? He may have sacrificed 10 years in grad school, incurring a large debt. How is that privileged? EDIT: Re "lavish" I would say that living off dividends or interest is a lavish lifestyle, a lifestyle of freedom, unlike living paycheck-to-paycheck, or off the principal.

 

[Andy SV]

Parking, repairs, tickets... Estimated(Avg.) yearly cost of maintaining a car in the US is around $10,000. Monthly parking can easily go over $1,000.

So ride a scooter to work half the parking lots are is free for motorcycles and scooters gas is super cheap and insurance is like $60 a year I think my five year tag cost me $50

 

[WWGD]

So ride a scooter to work half the parking lots are is free for motorcycles and scooters gas is super cheap and insurance is like $60 a year I think my five year tag cost me $50

EDIT I myself don't drive, I was just responding to Evo's post on the cost of having a car. I was mentioning aspects I thought she had missed.

 

[Andy SV]

EDIT I myself don't drive, I was just responding to Evo's post on the cost of having a car. I was mentioning aspects I thought she had missed.

Probably live longer that way

 

[WWGD]

Probably live longer that way

Indeed, and I want to experience the city "directly" , which is hard to do as a car. I would need an amazing offer to pull me out of a city where I can get by without a car.

 

[russ_watters]

Parking, repairs, tickets... Estimated(Avg.) yearly cost of maintaining a car in the US is around $10,000. Monthly parking can easily go over $1,000.

It goes back to lifestyle choices. Not including the cost of the car, I pay $5,000 per year in car related expenses for 18,000 miles of driving. Someone who lives in a city and doesn't commute to work would drive/pay substantially less. My Kia Optima (bought new) costs me about an additional $4,800 a year to buy, if I keep it 7 years. In total, that's $9,800, which is a bit above the AAA estimate for 2015 of $8,700. I'm comfortable with that for being a reasonably high mileage driver.

For the parking expense, if someone legitimately pays more for parking than all the rest of their car expenses combined, I have a hard time believing they aren't doing something wrong. If you lived in a city, you could take an Uber to work for less.

Someone who pays more than the average and complains about it is really just complaining about their own life choices. Still not finding any basis for sympathy.

 

[Andy SV]

Indeed, and I want to experience the city "directly" , which is hard to do as a car. I would need an amazing offer to pull me out of a city where I can get by without a car.

Unfortunately for me PHX is just to wide open and 115 it's to hot to walk much

 

[WWGD]

It goes back to lifestyle choices. Not including the cost of the car, I pay $5,000 per year in car related expenses for 18,000 miles of driving. Someone who lives in a city and doesn't commute to work would drive/pay substantially less. My Kia Optima (bought new) costs me about an additional $4,800 a year to buy, if I keep it 7 years. In total, that's $9,800, which is a bit above the AAA estimate for 2015 of $8,700. I'm comfortable with that for being a reasonably high mileage driver.

Someone who pays more than the average and complains about it is really just complaining about their own life choices. Still not finding any basis for sympathy.

I agree ,I am not defending his choices; I was replying to Evo's post. But consider too that for a working couple, each must own a car, and that the yearly average may vary from city to city. That would make it some $17,400; a big chunk of change.

 

[WWGD]

Another story: http://www.cnbc.com/2017/03/03/face...-with-rents-ask-mark-zuckerberg-for-help.html
With that salary, I'd be living like a king elsewhere!

This might actually be a thing people!

But you may not likely be making that much elsewhere, outside of the bigger cities: L.A, NYC, Chicago, SF, etc.

 

[WWGD]

Unfortunately for me PHX is just to wide open and 115 it's to hot to walk much

Yes, I was there for a week once, started sweating loads just minutes after exiting the airport.. Dry heat my A#$%.

 

[Evo]

Parking, repairs, tickets... Estimated(Avg.) yearly cost of maintaining a car in the US is around $10,000. Monthly parking can easily go over $1,000.

That's ridiculous. I don't get tickets, parking is free here, I don't have any repairs on my car. At most in any year with even an old car the most I've paid in repairs was $1,200, sign it was time to get a new car. How much my car costs isn't a factor because I would still have the car even if I didn't drive to work.

So it depends where you choose to live/work. The only times I had to work at offices that had parking garages/lots that they didn't own, the company paid for the parking.

 

[WWGD]

That's ridiculous. I don't get tickets, parking is free here, I don't have any repairs on my car. At most in any year with even an old car the most I've paid in repairs was $1,200, sign it was time to get a new car.

So it depends where you choose to live/work. The only times I had to work at offices that had parking garages/lots that they didn't own, the company paid for the parking.

I guess it also depends on the mileage : https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/04/16/aaa-car-ownership-costs/2070397/. And you may have to park when you go for errands, shopping, etc.

 

[Evo]

I guess it also depends on the mileage : https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/04/16/aaa-car-ownership-costs/2070397/. And you may have to park when you go for errands, shopping, etc.

Where I live in the suburbs, all of my shopping, food, mall, restaurants, doctors and even a major hospital are within a 2 mile radius, extend that to 5 miles and you've got 2 major hospitals. Parking is free here. Lots of parking. A perk of living in the less cluttered parts of the US. Plus they now have a car park where you can take the bus downtown if that's where you work.

When I lived in Chicago, I lived in the suburbs. People drove or were dropped off at the neighborhood train station and took the train into Chicago to go to work. Very cheap.

 

[WWGD]

Where I live in the suburbs, all of my shopping, food, mall, restaurants, doctors and even a major hospital are within a 2 mile radius, extend that to 5 miles and you've got 2 major hospitals. Parking is free here. Lots of parking. A perk of living in the less cluttered parts of the US. Plus they now have a car park where you can take the bus downtown if that's where you work.

When I lived in Chicago, I lived in the suburbs. People drove or were dropped off at the neighborhood train station and took the train into Chicago to go to work. Very cheap.

When I lived in Florida ( all 'burbs except for parts of Miami) I had to drive to places that were less than half a mile away, because of the layout, cities designed to maximize the flow of cars at the expense of pedestrians' convenience and arguably even safety. EDIt : by "all 'burbs" I refer to the average density.

 

[Andy SV]

We have a lite electric train line in PHX it is incorporated into the bus service.
It is growing every year
A months bus pass is $64. I can get one free and good for a year at work but I prefer to ride my scooter.

 

[MarneMath]

For the parking expense, if someone legitimately pays more for parking than all the rest of their car expenses combined, I have a hard time believing they aren't doing something wrong. If you lived in a city, you could take an Uber to work for less.

That would be me. My wife and I pay for parking our car in NYC. We pay 700 monthly for our spot. My wife's a lawyer and travels often to upstate New York. Our only cost for the car is maintenance and fuel since it's paid off. While some people would argue that she could take public transit and save that expense. We prefer the convenience of her being able to not plan around shuttle schedules. Plus it's really nice to have a car when we transport our dogs. It's simple to take them to the Upper West Side instead of dealing with a doggie taxi :) or awkward local dog runs.

 

[russ_watters]

That would be me. My wife and I pay for parking our car in NYC. We pay 700 monthly for our spot. My wife's a lawyer and travels often to upstate New York. Our only cost for the car is maintenance and fuel since it's paid off. While some people would argue that she could take public transit and save that expense. We prefer the convenience of her being able to not plan around shuttle schedules. Plus it's really nice to have a car when we transport our dogs. It's simple to take them to the Upper West Side instead of dealing with a doggie taxi :) or awkward local dog runs.

Yikes. But being a lawyer I think I could justify the expense.

 

[MarneMath]

Naturally, and she's able to charge the expensive of driving to her clients, so in the long run, we probably actually make a profit off the car.

 

[OCR]

My Kia Optima (bought new) costs me...

A little extra... for the music, right ? .. lol

 

[russ_watters]

A little extra... for the music, right ? .. lol

I suspect I'm subsidizing the Soul commercials, but still worth every penny!