Understanding Incompatible Scientific Theories for Scientists

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the nature of incompatible scientific theories, specifically examining the relationship between Newtonian mechanics and special relativity. Participants explore how scientists conceptualize these theories, their applicability in different contexts, and the implications of their incompatibility.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions how incompatible scientific theories should be understood, using Newtonian mechanics and special relativity as examples of contradictions.
  • Another participant argues that the perceived contradiction arises from a misunderstanding, suggesting that special relativity was developed in response to issues in classical electromagnetism rather than Newtonian mechanics.
  • Some participants propose that all scientific theories are approximations and that incompatibility reflects the current limits of understanding rather than definitive contradictions.
  • There is a discussion about how calculations differ between Newtonian mechanics and special relativity at high velocities, with one participant asserting that this difference exemplifies the contradiction, while others argue it does not constitute a true contradiction.
  • One participant emphasizes that Newtonian mechanics is a subset of special relativity, suggesting that a part cannot contradict the whole.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on whether theories can be considered truly incompatible. Some argue that they are merely different approximations applicable in various contexts, while others maintain that contradictions exist in their predictions under certain conditions. The discussion remains unresolved with multiple competing perspectives.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the importance of context in applying different theories, noting that the definitions of "incompatibility" and "contradiction" may vary based on the specific phenomena being described.

Schfra
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how should incompatibile scientific theories be thought of? Newtonian mechanics and special relativity contradict each other for example, so it doesn’t make sense to just consider all scientific theories to be part of one big coherent picture.

How do scientists think about scientific theories, particularly as it relates to different theories being incompatible and useful in different situations.
 
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Schfra said:
how should incompatibile scientific theories be thought of? Newtonian mechanics and special relativity contradict each other for example, so it doesn’t make sense to just consider all scientific theories to be part of one big coherent picture.

How do scientists think about scientific theories, particularly as it relates to different theories being incompatible and useful in different situations.

Where did you get the idea that Newtonian mechanics contradicts SR? Einstein came up with special relativity due to classical electromagnetism, not Newtonian mechanics, not being covariant under Galilean transformation. And note that SR has to match Newtonian mechanics and non-relativistic E&M at some level, because we know they work within some limits.

Incompatible theories only mean that the phenomenon that they are trying to describe is still not well-known yet, and it is still an active research in progress. We end up with a consistent formulation on things that are well-known and established.

Zz.
 
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I don't really believe there are incompatible theories, just different theories with different uncertainties and accuracy. In fact, almost all of Physics is (very close) approximation.
 
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ZapperZ said:
Where did you get the idea that Newtonian mechanics contradicts SR? Einstein came up with special relativity due to classical electromagnetism, not Newtonian mechanics, not being covariant under Galilean transformation. And note that SR has to match Newtonian mechanics and non-relativistic E&M at some level, because we know they work within some limits.

Incompatible theories only mean that the phenomenon that they are trying to describe is still not well-known yet, and it is still an active research in progress. We end up with a consistent formulation on things that are well-known and established.

Zz.
Regardless of why Einstein came up with special relativity, adding velocities is performed differently in Newtonian mechanics than in special relativity as I believe you’ve mentioned. Calculations done at near light speed velocities with Newtonian mechanics give very different numbers than SR. That’s just what I mean by contradictory. I understand that Newtonian mechanics and SR agree in most situations.
 
Schfra said:
Regardless of why Einstein came up with special relativity, adding velocities is performed differently in Newtonian mechanics than in special relativity as I believe you’ve mentioned. Calculations done at near light speed velocities with Newtonian mechanics give very different numbers than SR. That’s just what I mean by contradictory. I understand that Newtonian mechanics and SR agree in most situations.

But that is not the definition of contradictory, because we now know that the classical description is only a special case of a more general description. There is nothing contradictoy here.

Zz.
 
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Schfra said:
Newtonian mechanics and special relativity contradict each other for example
Newtonian mechanics is part of special relativity. A part can’t contradict the whole.

Schfra said:
Calculations done at near light speed velocities with Newtonian mechanics give very different numbers than SR
Clearly. Newtonian mechanics is the v<<c part of SR, not the near light speed part.
 
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