Understanding Quantum Chromodynamics: The Colorful World of Quarks Explained

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of quantum chromodynamics (QCD) and the properties of quarks, particularly focusing on the notion of 'color' charge, the stability of particles made of quarks, and the formation of hadrons such as protons and neutrons. Participants explore theoretical implications, mathematical representations, and the nature of particle interactions within the framework of QCD.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that a particle made of quarks is stable only when the 'colors' add up to white, referencing combinations such as red + antired = white.
  • Others argue that there is no known cause for the 'color' of quarks; it is an intrinsic property.
  • Some participants suggest that the strong interaction prevents isolated hadrons if color charges do not sum to neutral.
  • A viewpoint is presented that 'color' is a metaphor for a mathematical structure in a complex vector space, with the color combinations serving as mnemonics for group theory.
  • There is a discussion about whether a proton and neutron could form a new particle, with some confusion about terminology like "preutron."
  • Participants mention that deuterium nuclei consist of a proton and a neutron and are color neutral.
  • One participant raises the question of whether combining a proton and neutron could lead to a hexaquark hadron, which is theoretically possible at high energies but has short lifetimes.
  • There is a debate over how to classify certain multi-quark states, such as distinguishing between bound states of mesons and baryons.
  • Some participants discuss the shell model of nuclei and its implications for understanding nucleons and quark states within nuclei.
  • Questions are raised about the methods used to distinguish between different particle states, including the use of diagrams.
  • A speculative comment is made about ancient knowledge of QCD, which is met with skepticism from other participants.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express multiple competing views on the nature of quark color, the stability of hadrons, and the classification of multi-quark states. The discussion remains unresolved with no consensus reached on several points.

Contextual Notes

Participants acknowledge limitations in understanding the interactions and classifications of particles, particularly regarding the definitions and assumptions underlying color charge and quark states.

Kyx
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So, a particle made of quarks is only stable if the 'colours' of the quarks add up to white

So, red + antired = white
blue + antiblue = white
green + antigreen = white
red + blue + green = white
red + antired + red + blue + green = white

But what causes the 'colour'?
And why do they have to add up to white?
 
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Kyx said:
But what causes the 'colour'?
There is nothing (known) that "causes" color. Quarks just have them.
Kyx said:
And why do they have to add up to white?
Otherwise the strong interaction with other color charges is so strong that you do not have isolated hadrons.
 
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mfb said:
There is nothing (known) that "causes" color. Quarks just have them.
Otherwise the strong interaction with other color charges is so strong that you do not have isolated hadrons.

So you would have a proton with a neutron as a new particle? like a preutron?
 
Colour is merely a name we have put on something because it behaves similarly to how we perceive colours as being made up out of red, green, and blue. In reality, we are talking about three different directions in a three-dimensional complex vector space. Quarks carry a fundamental representation of the linear operators on this space. The rule "red+blue+green = white" are merely simplified mnemonics of the mathematical group theory structure, wherein three fundamental representations couple to make a singlet representation.

Kyx said:
So you would have a proton with a neutron as a new particle? like a preutron?
It is not clear what you mean by this. The proton and neutron form an isospin doublet.
 
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Orodruin said:
Colour is merely a name we have put on something because it behaves similarly to how we perceive colours as being made up out of red, green, and blue. In reality, we are talking about three different directions in a three-dimensional complex vector space. Quarks carry a fundamental representation of the linear operators on this space. The rule "red+blue+green = white" are merely simplified mnemonics of the mathematical group theory structure, wherein three fundamental representations couple to make a singlet representation.It is not clear what you mean by this. The proton and neutron form an isospin doublet.

There must be a reason why they form protons and neutrons, and not a proton and a neutron together as its own particle. like red+blue+green+red+blue+green = white?
 
Kyx said:
There must be a reason why they form protons and neutrons, and not a proton and a neutron together as its own particle. like red+blue+green+red+blue+green = white?

There are particles consisting of a proton and a neutron, they are called deuterium nuclei and are also colour neutral (just as any nucleus is).
 
Orodruin said:
There are particles consisting of a proton and a neutron, they are called deuterium nuclei and are also colour neutral (just as any nucleus is).

OK :)

thx
 
I think what Kyx wanted to ask was, if a proton and neutron is combined, would they form a hexaquark hadron.
Such hadrons can (they are allowed to) theoretically exist, but only at extreme high energies. They would have etremely short half lives.
There are lots of particles that are allowed to exist, but most of them are too heavy (and energetic) that you wouldn't find them in nature.
We can barely create such particles. I have red in the wiki that only one hexaquark hadron is detected so far.
 
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Garlic said:
We can barely create such particles. I have red in the wiki that only one hexaquark hadron is detected so far.
Only if you count the deuteron and similar states. Also, how do you distinguish a deuteron (or a possible excited state of it) from a different 6-quark state?

There is quite clear evidence for 4-quark and 5-quark states now, but there you have the same interpretation question: is it a bound state of two mesons or a meson and a baryon respectively, or does that classification does not make sense?
 
  • #10
Does the shell model of nuclei, and the allowed spins and excited states of deuterons and other nuclei, clarify as to whether nucleons exist (and occupy states) in nuclei, or whether nuclei consist of quarks being direct members?
 
  • #11
Nucleons are a great model to describe nuclei. They are certainly not completely unordered n-quark states.
 
  • #12
mfb said:
is it a bound state of two mesons or a meson and a baryon respectively, or does that classification does not make sense?

That's where they use some diagrams to distinguish it, but I have never understood how they use them.

I want to say that there is/has to be a discriminant way to separate them... a bound state for example would need two (color neutral) mesons bound by some yukawa interaction? While the tetraquark states should be colorful (qq) and colorful (q*q*) coming together into a colorless bound state with gluons.
 
  • #14
They certainly did not know about QCD. There are three animals in a circle, so what? The number three appears everywhere.
 
  • #15
but their ears form the gluons..

ok fine back to real science, i won't pollute the thread any further
 

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