Understanding the concept of direct sum

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of direct sums in linear algebra, specifically how to generalize the definition from two subspaces to three or more subspaces. Participants explore the conditions under which a sum of subspaces can be considered a direct sum, examining both definitions and counterexamples.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents a definition of direct sum for two subspaces and attempts to generalize it to three subspaces, questioning the validity of their approach.
  • Another participant provides a counterexample using specific subspaces in ##\mathbb{R}^2##, arguing that the proposed generalization does not hold.
  • A later reply acknowledges the counterexample but initially misunderstands the implications, leading to further clarification about the uniqueness of representations in the context of direct sums.
  • Some participants discuss the importance of unique representations in defining direct sums and reference alternative definitions from literature.
  • One participant suggests that the definition of direct sums can be approached from category theory, proposing a more abstract perspective on the concept.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the generalization of the direct sum definition. There are competing views on the validity of the proposed definitions and counterexamples, indicating ongoing debate and exploration of the topic.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty about the conditions required for a direct sum, particularly regarding the uniqueness of representations and the intersection properties of subspaces. Some definitions and examples may depend on specific contexts or interpretations.

JD_PM
Messages
1,125
Reaction score
156
TL;DR
I want to understand what I am missing in the generalization I made for the direct sum when ##3## subspaces are involved.
Given two subspaces ##U_1, U_2##, I understand the concept of direct sum

$$ W= U_1 \oplus U_2 \iff W= U_1 + U_2, \quad U_1 \cap U_2 = \{ 0 \}$$

Where ##W## is a subspace of ##V##.

I am trying to generalize it for more than ##2## subspaces, say ##3##. I thought of the following.

$$ W= U_1 \oplus U_2 \oplus U_3 \iff U_1 \cap U_2 = \{ 0 \}, U_1 \cap U_3 = \{ 0 \}, U_2 \cap U_3 = \{ 0 \}, U_1 + U_2 + U_3 = W $$

It does not seem to have the same structure that for the statement with ##k## subspaces

\begin{align*}
W= U_1 \oplus U_2 \oplus ... \oplus U_k \iff& U_i \cap \left(U_1 + ... + U_{i-1} + U_{i+1} + ... + U_k\right) = \{ 0 \} \\
&U_1 + U_2 + ... + U_k = W
\end{align*}

In particular, the issue lies on the intersection statement. Might you explain why my thought is faulty? I should be able to find a counterexample once I see it :)

Thanks! :biggrin:
 
Physics news on Phys.org
Let ##W=\mathbb{R}^2##, ##U_1=span( (1,0)),U_2=span(1,1),U_3=span(0,1)## be three one dimensional subspaces Under your attempt, we would have ##W=U_1\oplus U_2 \oplus U_3## but that's not desirable for the definition of direct sum.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: FactChecker
Office_Shredder said:
Let ##W=\mathbb{R}^2##, ##U_1=span( (1,0)),U_2=span(1,1),U_3=span(0,1)##

But, if I am not mistaken, given

$$U_1 = \{ (x, 0) | x \in \Bbb R\}, \quad U_2 = \{ (x, y) | x, y \in \Bbb R\}, \quad U_3 = \{ (0, y) | y \in \Bbb R\}$$

We could find ##\Bbb R^2= U_1 + U_2 + U_3## in more than one way. Another would be say ##U_1=span( (1,0)),U_2=span(1,2),U_3=span(0,1)##. So I do not see it as a counterexample as the sum is not unique.

Am I missing something?EDIT: Oops I realized you meant

$$U_1 = \{ (x, 0) | x \in \Bbb R\}, \quad U_2 = \{ (y, y) | y \in \Bbb R\}, \quad U_3 = \{ (0, y) | y \in \Bbb R\}$$

So indeed, we can write ##\Bbb R^2= U_1 + U_2 + U_3## in a unique way (up to a scalar factor). EDIT 2: " we can write ##\Bbb R^2= U_1 + U_2 + U_3## in a unique way (up to a scalar factor)" is not true, see #5.
 
Last edited:
I have been thinking that the key might be in finding a counterexample that satisfies ##W= U_1 \oplus U_2 \oplus U_3## but fails to meet ##\left(U_1+U_2\right)\cap U_3 = \{ 0 \}##.

However I do not seem to see it... Might you give me a hint?
 
Let's start all over again.

I found a more convincing definition of direct sum (Axler, page 21)

##U_1 + U_2 + \ ... \ + U_k## is a direct sum if ##x \in U_1 + U_2 + \ ... \ + U_k## can be written in a unique way as ##x = u_1 + u_2 + \ ... \ + u_k##, where ##u_i \in U_i##

JD_PM said:
$$U_1 = \{ (x, 0) | x \in \Bbb R\}, \quad U_2 = \{ (y, y) | y \in \Bbb R\}, \quad U_3 = \{ (0, y) | y \in \Bbb R\}$$

##\Bbb R^2= U_1 \oplus U_2 \oplus U_3## does not hold in this case because there are (at least) two ways of obtaining the zero vector

$$(0, 0) = (1, 0) + (-1, -1) + (0, 1)$$

And the trivial case

$$(0, 0) = (0, 0) + (0, 0) + (0, 0)$$

So, if I am not mistaken, that is the reason why that is a valid counterexample to the given definition of the direct sum :smile:
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: FactChecker and nuuskur
There are several equivalent formulations in finite dimensions. Equivalent are:
  1. ##\sum X_i ## is a direct sum
  2. ## 0 ## decomposes uniquely
  3. ##X_j\cap \sum _{i\neq j} X_i = \{0\} ## for every ##i=1,\ldots, n##
  4. ##\dim \sum X_i = \sum \dim X_i ##
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: JD_PM
JD_PM said:
So, if I am not mistaken, that is the reason why that is a valid counterexample to the given definition of the direct sum :smile:
You got it, but allow me to be a little nitpicky about your words. It is a counterexample to your definition attempt being a correct definition of the direct sum.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: JD_PM
The first step is to master the correct definition of a direct sum, from category theory. A direct sum of three spaces A,B,C is a space X with 3 subspaces A,B,C such that for any target space Y, any three maps A-->Y, B-->Y, C-->Y, always extends uniquely to a map X-->Y. It follows immediately that the union of the three spaces generate X, and that they intersect pairwise in zero. You, may then try to check if the converse holds. I doubt it, by visualizing three lines in the plane, all through zero. Youm might want to add that the sum of any two meets the third in zero.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 10 ·
Replies
10
Views
2K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
1K
Replies
5
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
3K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
5K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
4K
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
2K
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 15 ·
Replies
15
Views
2K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
3K