Understanding the Limit of 1/x as x Approaches Infinity and Zero

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the mathematical limits of the function 1/x as x approaches infinity and zero. Participants explore definitions, the nature of infinity, and the implications of limits in real-valued functions, with a focus on understanding the concepts rather than proving them formally.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants assert that ##\frac{1}{\infty} = 0## is a definition in the extended real numbers, while others challenge the validity of treating infinity as a number.
  • There is a claim that ##\frac{1}{0}## is undefined in both real and extended real numbers.
  • Some participants express confusion over the use of "infinity" as a noun versus "infinite" as an adjective, with differing opinions on their grammatical roles.
  • A participant mentions that limits do not exist in certain contexts, suggesting that one can always find a larger or smaller number to challenge the limit concept.
  • There is a discussion about the formal definition of limits involving epsilon and delta, with participants seeking clarification on their meanings and implications.
  • Some participants express uncertainty about the nature of limits, questioning how one can treat x approaching a value while x does not equal that value.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach consensus on the treatment of infinity, the existence of limits, or the definitions of mathematical terms. Multiple competing views remain, particularly regarding the nature of limits and the validity of certain mathematical statements.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include varying interpretations of mathematical definitions, the ambiguity surrounding the use of infinity in discourse, and unresolved questions about the nature of limits in real-valued functions.

  • #31
Mark44 said:
No. ϵ\epsilon is a particular (positive, and usually close to 0) number that someone tells you. Your part of the dialog is to find a positive number δ\delta so that some condition is met.

If the other person is satisfied that you have established the limit, you're done. If not, the other person will make it harder, by telling you a smaller positive number, ϵ\epsilon. You then have to find a corresponding, but possibly different value of δ\delta. The process continues until the other person finally gives up.
Wow, thank you that is a great explanation,
There are multiple turns in the game and it repeats at the beginning of the statement.

But what if there exists goes first, would you just have to prove the statement for one delta and all epsilon and the game would not repeat.
 
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  • #32
Josh S Thompson said:
Wow, thank you that is a great explanation,
There are multiple turns in the game and it repeats at the beginning of the statement.

But what if there exists goes first, would you just have to prove the statement for one delta and all epsilon and the game would not repeat.
That's not how it works. You can't arbitrarily change the definition of ##\lim_{x \to a} f(x) = L##, which goes like this:
"For each ##\epsilon > 0## there exists a ##\delta > 0## such that if ##0 < |x - a| < \delta, |f(x) - L| < \epsilon##."
Sometimes you see this with more symbolism, but this captures the idea of the definition.

You start with ##\epsilon## that someone gives you, and you find ##\delta## so that when x is within ##\delta## of a, then f(x) is within ##\epsilon## of L.
 
  • #33
##1/x## doesn't eaqual to ##\infty## if ##x=0## and ##1/x## doesn't equal to ##0## if ##x=\infty##, but the limit of 1/x when x approach ∞ or x approach to 0 it does and by the way Josh S. Thompson u need to learn about Limitations again. ☺
 
  • #34
Mark44 said:
If the other person is satisfied that you have established the limit, you're done. If not, the other person will make it harder, by telling you a smaller positive number, ϵ\epsilon. You then have to find a corresponding, but possibly different value of δ\delta. The process continues until the other person finally gives up.

What if the person picking epsilon never gives up?
 
  • #35
Josh S Thompson said:
What if the person picking epsilon never gives up?

Then the game goes on forever. The point is that the person choosing the ##\delta## can never lose.
 
  • #36
micromass said:
Then the game goes on forever. The point is that the person choosing the ##\delta## can never lose.
thats why its a limit becasue the game goes on forever.
 
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