Understanding the Relationship Between Exterior and Cross Products

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the relationship between the exterior product (wedge product) and the cross product of vectors in R^3. Participants explore definitions, properties, and potential equivalences between these two mathematical constructs, addressing both theoretical and conceptual aspects.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions whether the exterior product of two vectors is equal to the magnitude of their cross product, seeking clarification on their relationship.
  • Another participant asserts that the wedge product results in a bivector, indicating that it cannot be equal to the magnitude of the cross product.
  • A participant explains that the Hodge dual of the wedge product can yield the cross product, providing a brief overview of the Hodge duality in the context of R^3.
  • One participant expresses confusion regarding a visual representation from Wikipedia, noting that the exterior product's magnitude may relate to the cross product's magnitude, but they are not the same entity.
  • Several participants inquire about the determinant form of the exterior product and whether the wedge product and exterior product are synonymous.
  • There is a suggestion to use the definition of the wedge product and the properties of norms to demonstrate a relationship between the two products.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the equivalence of the wedge product and exterior product, with some asserting they are the same while others seek clarification. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the exact relationship between the exterior product and the cross product.

Contextual Notes

There are unresolved assumptions regarding the definitions of the exterior product and wedge product, as well as the conditions under which their magnitudes may be compared. The discussion also reflects varying levels of familiarity with advanced concepts such as Hodge duality.

dimension10
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I have a question about the exterior product. Is it true that

[tex]\mathbf{a}\wedge\mathbf{b}=|| \mathbf{a}\times \mathbf{b}||[/tex]

If not, how does one relate the exterior product to the cross product?

Thanks in advance.
 
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Presumably, you mean that a and b are vectors in R^3. Wedge product of vectors would be a bivector, so it couldn't possibly be equal to the left hand side.

If you take a wedge b and then the Hodge dual of that with respect to the Euclidean metric, you get the cross product.

Crash course in Hodge duals for this case:

Let e1, e2, e3 be a basis for R^3.

The Hodge dual of e1^ e2 can be written like (e1^e2)* and it will be e3.

And similarly, we have (e2^e3)* = e1 and (e3^e1)* = e2.

Then you can extend by linearity to the vector-space of all bivectors. You can see that this gives you the cross product.
 
homeomorphic said:
Presumably, you mean that a and b are vectors in R^3. Wedge product of vectors would be a bivector, so it couldn't possibly be equal to the left hand side.

If you take a wedge b and then the Hodge dual of that with respect to the Euclidean metric, you get the cross product.

Crash course in Hodge duals for this case:

Let e1, e2, e3 be a basis for R^3.

The Hodge dual of e1^ e2 can be written like (e1^e2)* and it will be e3.

And similarly, we have (e2^e3)* = e1 and (e3^e1)* = e2.

Then you can extend by linearity to the vector-space of all bivectors. You can see that this gives you the cross product.

Thanks.

I think I was confused by the picture in Wikipedia which makes it seem like the exterior product is the area of the parallelogram. This time, I noticed that there were 2 arrows around it, making it a bivector. So am I right to say that the magnitude of the exterior product is the same as the magnitude of the cross product whereas the exterior product itself is not the same as the magnitude?

Thanks.
 
dimension10 said:
I have a question about the exterior product. Is it true that

[tex]\mathbf{a}\wedge\mathbf{b}=|| \mathbf{a}\times \mathbf{b}||[/tex]

If not, how does one relate the exterior product to the cross product?

Thanks in advance.

Hey dimension10.

Are you familiar with the determinant form of the exterior product?
 
chiro said:
Hey dimension10.

Are you familiar with the determinant form of the exterior product?

The alternating exterior product?
 
dimension10 said:
The alternating exterior product?

Just before I give an answer, I just want to be clear: is the wedge product and the exterior product the same thing? (I was under the impression it was).
 
chiro said:
Just before I give an answer, I just want to be clear: is the wedge product and the exterior product the same thing? (I was under the impression it was).

I think they are.
 
dimension10 said:
I think they are.

In that case just use the definition of the wedge product (for R3 given two initial vectors) and the cross product and then use the property of norms (i.e. expand out the terms) to show they are equal.
 

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