Unravelling Structure of a Symmetric Matrix

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the properties of a specific symmetric matrix, particularly focusing on its eigenvalues and eigenvectors. Participants explore the behavior of eigenvectors associated with the largest and smallest magnitude eigenvalues, considering potential underlying structures and patterns within the matrix.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants note that the eigenvectors corresponding to the largest magnitude eigenvalues exhibit oscillatory behavior, while those for the smallest magnitude eigenvalue show a more "coherent" or "nicer" behavior.
  • There is a hypothesis that the alternating signs in the matrix contribute to the behavior of the eigenvectors, particularly in how they interact with the last row of the matrix.
  • One participant suggests that the last row's contribution to the eigenvalue can lead to a larger resultant when the eigenvector has alternating signs, potentially affecting the eigenvalue's magnitude.
  • Another participant expresses interest in experimentally testing the hypothesis by modifying elements of the matrix and observing the effects on the eigenvectors.
  • One participant mentions that modifications to specific elements resulted in changes to the eigenvector signs, aligning with their earlier observations.
  • A later reply prompts for more information about how the matrix was generated, suggesting that there may be deeper reasons for the existence of certain eigenvectors.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the underlying reasons for the observed behaviors of the eigenvectors. Multiple hypotheses and exploratory approaches are presented, indicating ongoing uncertainty and investigation.

Contextual Notes

The discussion lacks detailed information on the assumptions made during the analysis of the matrix and the specific methods used to generate it, which may affect interpretations of the eigenvalues and eigenvectors.

thatboi
Messages
130
Reaction score
20
Hey guys,
I was wondering if anyone had any thoughts on the following symmetric matrix:
$$\begin{pmatrix}
0.6 & 0.2 & -0.2 & -0.6 & -1\\
0.2 & -0.2 & -0.2 & 0.2 & 1\\
-0.2 & -0.2 & 0.2 & 0.2 & -1\\
-0.6 & 0.2 & 0.2 & -0.6 & 1\\
-1 & 1 & -1 & 1 & -1
\end{pmatrix}
$$
Notably, when one solves for the eigenvalues and eigenvectors of this matrix, one finds that for the largest magnitude eigenvalues, the eigenvectors demonstrate an oscillatory behavior (the elements within the eigenvector switch between positive and negative), whereas for the smallest magnitude eigenvalue, the eigenvectors have a "nicer" behavior. This most likely has to do with the alternative +/- 1 in the matrix but I can't quite figure it out.
 
Physics news on Phys.org
thatboi said:
Hey guys,
I was wondering if anyone had any thoughts on the following symmetric matrix:
$$\begin{pmatrix}
0.6 & 0.2 & -0.2 & -0.6 & -1\\
0.2 & -0.2 & -0.2 & 0.2 & 1\\
-0.2 & -0.2 & 0.2 & 0.2 & -1\\
-0.6 & 0.2 & 0.2 & -0.6 & 1\\
-1 & 1 & -1 & 1 & -1
\end{pmatrix}
$$
Notably, when one solves for the eigenvalues and eigenvectors of this matrix, one finds that for the largest magnitude eigenvalues, the eigenvectors demonstrate an oscillatory behavior (the elements within the eigenvector switch between positive and negative), whereas for the smallest magnitude eigenvalue, the eigenvectors have a "nicer" behavior. This most likely has to do with the alternative +/- 1 in the matrix but I can't quite figure it out.
I think this hypothesis can be easily tested.
 
Hill said:
I think this hypothesis can be easily tested.
Right, so the last row contributes to the eigenvalue in the sense that it gives the last entry of the resultant column vector when the matrix is multiplied by the eigenvector. So if the eigenvector also has entries that alternates signs, then the dot product between the eigenvector and the last row will result in a "coherent" sum and thus produce a larger number than compared to a different eigenvector with a different configuration of signs. Is this the right way to think about it?
 
thatboi said:
Right, so the last row contributes to the eigenvalue in the sense that it gives the last entry of the resultant column vector when the matrix is multiplied by the eigenvector. So if the eigenvector also has entries that alternates signs, then the dot product between the eigenvector and the last row will result in a "coherent" sum and thus produce a larger number than compared to a different eigenvector with a different configuration of signs. Is this the right way to think about it?
I meant to test it experimentally, by modifying the "suspected" elements and observing how the eigenvectors are affected.
 
Hill said:
I meant to test it experimentally, by modifying the "suspected" elements and observing how the eigenvectors are affected.
Sure, I already did some modifications and it seemed to match what I said above (for example if I put a negative sign on only the second element of the last column and second element of the last row, then the eigenvector corresponding to the largest magnitude eigenvalue only has a negative sign on the second element as well). I was just wondering if there was any more intuition/structure in the matrix beyond what I said above.
 
If you described how you generated that matrix, sometimes there are underlying reasons why certain eigenvectors exist.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 33 ·
2
Replies
33
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
3K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
3K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
6K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
4K
Replies
1
Views
1K
  • · Replies 16 ·
Replies
16
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 10 ·
Replies
10
Views
2K