Unveiling the Mystery of Magnetic Fields in Space

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the nature of magnetic fields in space, particularly their relationship with electric currents and their implications in astrophysics and celestial mechanics. Participants explore the presence of magnetic fields in various cosmic environments, the role of plasma, and the significance of electromagnetic forces compared to gravitational forces.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question why astrophysics discussions focus on magnetic fields without mentioning the electric currents that produce them.
  • Others explain that the motion of charged particles in plasma creates electric currents, which sustain magnetic fields, and reference magnetohydrodynamics (MHD) as a framework for understanding this.
  • It is noted that while electromagnetic forces are often negligible in celestial mechanics due to the dominance of gravitational forces, there are exceptions in specific cases like neutron stars and black hole accretion disks.
  • Some participants argue that the impact of magnetic fields on large celestial bodies, such as Jupiter, is often considered ignorable due to their significant gravitational influence.
  • There is mention of ongoing debate regarding the influence of magnetic fields on the formation and orientation of molecular clouds, with references to recent research suggesting varying roles of magnetic fields in stellar nurseries.
  • One participant introduces the concept of cosmic ray fluxes and their potential contributions to the dynamics of charged particles in space, raising questions about energy conservation in a vacuum.
  • Another participant discusses the Biermann process, which suggests that magnetic fields can arise from the motion of charged particles, highlighting a historical perspective on the understanding of cosmic magnetic fields.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express multiple competing views regarding the significance of electric currents in relation to magnetic fields, the role of electromagnetic forces in celestial mechanics, and the impact of magnetic fields on molecular cloud formation. The discussion remains unresolved with no clear consensus.

Contextual Notes

Some limitations include the dependence on definitions of magnetic fields and electric currents, as well as the unresolved nature of how these forces interact in various astrophysical contexts.

Lesnick
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With modern telescopes we can see magnetic fields throughout the universe, in our solar system, in and around galaxies and in interstellar space. Given that magnetic fields do not exist without moving charge i.e. a electric current.Why is it that;
a) Astrophysics only ever talk about magnetic fields and never seem to mention the electric currents that must produce them
b) Why these electric currents/magnetic fields when they obviously exist throughout the universe are not considered in celestial mechanics.
 
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The empty space between stars and galaxies is not empty, but is filled with low-density ionized gas, which is also known as plasma. The motion of the charged particles in the plasma creates electric currents, which is what sustains the magnetic fields. The motion of the plasma is described by the equations of magnetohydrodynamics (MHD). Below are some links to get you started.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astrophysical_plasma
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interstellar_medium
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetohydrodynamics

For most problems in celestial mechanics, the electromagnetic forces are negligible compared to the gravitational forces, so the EM forces are ignored. However, in some cases, such as neutron stars, black hole accretion disks, gamma-ray bursts, etc., it is believed that the magnetic fields play a dominant role, and there are many people studying the magnetic field behavior in detail.
 
Lesnick said:
a) Astrophysics only ever talk about magnetic fields and never seem to mention the electric currents that must produce them

They do. Plasma and magetodynamics.

b) Why these electric currents/magnetic fields when they obviously exist throughout the universe are not considered in celestial mechanics.

They are for small objects like asteroids and spacecraft (through radiation pressure). The problem is that a large object produces more gravity so that if you estimate the impact that a magnetic field has on say Jupiter, then it turns out to be ignorable.
 
twofish-quant said:
Plasma and magetodynamics.

They are for small objects like asteroids and spacecraft (through radiation pressure). The problem is that a large object produces more gravity so that if you estimate the impact that a magnetic field has on say Jupiter, then it turns out to be ignorable.

Apparently there is still some debate on how magnetic fields impose direction upon molecular clouds (stellar nurseries). Some new research is reported by the journal Nature.

http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v479/n7374/full/nature10551.html?WT.ec_id=NATURE-20111124
The formation of molecular clouds, which serve as stellar nurseries in galaxies, is poorly understood. A class of cloud formation models suggests that a large-scale galactic magnetic field is irrelevant at the scale of individual clouds, because the turbulence and rotation of a cloud may randomize the orientation of its magnetic field1, 2. Alternatively, galactic fields could be strong enough to impose their direction upon individual clouds3, 4, thereby regulating cloud accumulation and fragmentation5, and affecting the rate and efficiency of star formation6. Our location in the disk of the Galaxy makes an assessment of the situation difficult. Here we report observations of the magnetic field orientation of six giant molecular cloud complexes in the nearby, almost face-on, galaxy M33. The fields are aligned with the spiral arms, suggesting that the large-scale field in M33 anchors the clouds.


http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/11/111116132119.htm
Astronomers at the Max Planck Institute for Astronomy have, for the first time, measured the alignment of magnetic fields in gigantic clouds of gas and dust in a distant galaxy. Their results suggest that such magnetic fields play a key role in channeling matter to form denser clouds, and thus in setting the stage for the birth of new stars.Respectfully submitted,
SteveEdit: Link to the Nature PDF: http://arxiv.org/abs/1111.2745
 
Last edited by a moderator:
"Given that magnetic fields do not exist without moving charge i.e. a electric current.Why is it that;
a) Astrophysics only ever talk about magnetic fields and never seem to mention the electric currents that must produce them
b) Why these electric currents/magnetic fields when they obviously exist throughout the universe are not considered in celestial mechanics."

Additionally interstellar and intergalactic primary and secondary cosmic ray fluxes provide a cascade of many and mainly positively charged particles. Even though interstellar and intergalactic space is not energetically closed; if you throw a huge Gaussian sphere in the center of a void; you'd expect typically a reciprocal isotropic and homogeneous flux through all segments of the surface. Only two "oh my god particles" colliding head on result in a cascade of billions of charge particles: i.e. millions of charged and neutral pions and kaons, decaying into positrons, electrons, muons, neutrinos, gamma rays etc. Within the Gaussian sphere the energy and or matter remains... Wimps, fields, etc.

The main idea is energy/matter is conserve as the flux continues until in one cup full of baryonically empty vacuum, you have enought energy to boil every ocean on earth.

quantum field theory and dark energy predictions show the energy exist.

Well this is my take.

Respectfully

Mr. Zagoni
 
http://www.physorg.com/news/2012-01-galactic-magnetic-field-lab-bolsters.html
"According to our previous understanding, any magnetic field that had been made ought to have gone away by now," said Paul Drake, the Henry S. Carhart Collegiate Professor of Atmospheric, Oceanic, and Space Sciences and a professor in physics at U-M. "We didn't understand what mechanism might create a magnetic field, and even if it happened, we didn't understand why the magnetic field is still there.

"It has been a very enduring mystery."

Discovered by a German astronomer in1950, the Biermann process predicts that a magnetic field can spring up spontaneously from nothing more than the motion of charged particles. Plasma, or charged particle gas, is abundant in space.

Scientists believe that large clouds of gas collapsing into galaxies sent elliptically shaped bubbles of shockwaves through the early universe, touching off flows of electric current in the plasma of the intergalactic medium.


Respectfully submitted,
Steve
 

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