Do single moving charges create magnetic fields, why?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around whether a single moving charge creates a magnetic field, with connections to concepts in relativity and the nature of electric and magnetic fields. Participants explore theoretical implications, examples, and the relationship between electric and magnetic forces.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that magnetic fields arise from static electricity through length contractions, questioning if a single moving charge produces a magnetic field.
  • Others argue that a single moving electron does produce a magnetic field in a frame where it is moving, referencing Einstein's work on the subject.
  • One participant challenges the idea that magnetic fields are solely caused by length contraction, stating that the electromagnetic field is linear and that the field of many electrons is the sum of individual fields.
  • Concerns are raised about the concept of a "magnetic observer," with some participants asserting that there is no distinction between a charged observer and a magnetic observer, as an uncharged object does not experience magnetic forces.
  • Another participant emphasizes that forces felt by a charged observer near a current-carrying wire differ from those felt when there is no current, suggesting a nuanced understanding of the forces involved.
  • Discussion includes the idea that a magnet, despite having no net charge, can still feel forces due to the magnetic field generated by currents, but this is contested in relation to the original topic of single charges.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the relationship between moving charges and magnetic fields, with no consensus reached on the nature of magnetic observers or the implications of electric and magnetic forces.

Contextual Notes

Some assumptions about the nature of magnetic fields and observers remain unresolved, and the discussion highlights the complexity of the relationship between electric and magnetic forces in different reference frames.

Jonathan1218
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The reason this is in relativity is ( please correct if wrong )that magnetic fields are effects created by static electricity through length contractions. If a line of electrons move pass a parallel line of positive charges and a charged observer is outside this it would see electrons being contracted meaning the overall charge will become negative due to increased density of electrons. And the observer would be repelled or attracted. Watch (at 1:10) he does a better job of explaining. So without other charges, would a single charge produce magnetic fields when moving. Please ask me to do a better job at expressing my question if you don't understand. Ty
 
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What he describes there is not a general derivation, but just a specific example to establish the plausibility of the idea that what is a magnetic field in one frame is an electric field in another frame.

A general derivation was done by Einstein in his seminal paper. See section 6 of On the Electrodynamics of Moving Bodies.

The short answer is: yes, a single electron does produce a magnetic field in a frame where it is moving.
 
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Jonathan1218 said:
The reason this is in relativity is ( please correct if wrong )that magnetic fields are effects created by static electricity through length contractions.
They are not. That is one way to motivate the concept but it is not "the cause".
Jonathan1218 said:
So without other charges, would a single charge produce magnetic fields when moving.
Yes. The electromagnetic field is linear, the field of many electrons is just the sum of the field of each individual electron. If a single electron wouldn't create a magnetic field then many moving electric charges (e.g. in an electric current) wouldn't lead to a magnetic field either.
 
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Jonathan1218 said:
If a line of electrons move pass a parallel line of positive charges and a charged observer is outside this it would see electrons being contracted meaning the overall charge will become negative due to increased density of electrons.
Well now I must point out the fact that a charged observer next to a wire feels the same force from the wire when there is a current in the wire and when there is no current in the wire.

But a magnetic observer would feel a difference in the forces in those two cases.

(When a charged cat runs past a charged observer the observer sees the cat being contracted, meaning that due to decreased distance between the charges on the cat the observer feels the forces from the charges more at the same time ... so the observer feels a larger force for a shorter time)
 
jartsa said:
now I must point out the fact that a charged observer next to a wire feels the same force from the wire when there is a current in the wire and when there is no current in the wire.

But a magnetic observer would feel a difference in the forces in those two cases.

I don't know where you're getting this from. There is no such thing as a "magnetic observer" different from a charged observer; an object with no charge does not feel any magnetic force any more than it feels an electric force.
 
PeterDonis said:
I don't know where you're getting this from. There is no such thing as a "magnetic observer" different from a charged observer; an object with no charge does not feel any magnetic force any more than it feels an electric force.

A magnet with no net charge feels a force when put next to a wire with a current. It feels some torque, and it feels some force too, because the magnetic file around the wire is not uniform.

I admit that "magnetic observer" is kind of strange term. :smile:
 
jartsa said:
A magnet with no net charge feels a force when put next to a wire with a current.

Yes, but if you analyze the details of this force, you will see that it comes from electric and magnetic forces on individual charges inside the magnet. There is no such thing as a magnet with no charges inside it at all. And the thread topic is about "single" charges, not about magnets with lots of charges in them that add up to zero net charge.
 

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