Using v substitution for first order homogenous DE and constraining solution

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the use of substitution methods for solving first-order homogeneous differential equations. Participants explore the implications of the substitution \( v(x) = \frac{y}{x} \) and its application to specific differential equations, including the constraints on the solutions derived from this method.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant proposes that the differential equation \( \frac{\mathrm{d} y}{\mathrm{d} x} = f\left(\frac{y}{x} \right) \) can be solved by substituting \( v(x) = \frac{y}{x} \), leading to the expression \( \frac{\mathrm{d} y}{\mathrm{d} x} = v + x\frac{\mathrm{d} v}{\mathrm{d} x} \).
  • Another participant confirms the correctness of the substitution and the resulting expression for \( \frac{\mathrm{d} y}{\mathrm{d} x} \).
  • Participants discuss the solution to the specific differential equation \( \frac{\mathrm{d} y}{\mathrm{d} x} = \frac{x^2+xy+y^2}{x^2} \) and the derived solution \( y = x\tan{\left(\ln(|x|) + C \right)} \), questioning the validity of the solution under the condition \( -\frac{\pi}{2} < \frac{y}{x} < \frac{\pi}{2} \).
  • Further elaboration on determining the constant \( C \) is provided, emphasizing the need for an initial condition and discussing the range of the tangent function.
  • One participant expresses a desire to understand the reasoning behind these methods, indicating a challenge in developing such problem-solving skills.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the validity of the substitution method and the derived solution, but there is a discussion about the constraints on the solution that remains somewhat unresolved. The need for initial conditions and the implications of the tangent function's range are acknowledged, but no consensus is reached on the completeness of the solution's presentation in the book.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the solution's validity is contingent upon the conditions imposed by the tangent function, and there is an acknowledgment of the importance of initial conditions in determining the constant \( C \). However, the discussion does not resolve whether the book's answer key adequately addresses these constraints.

Who May Find This Useful

Readers interested in differential equations, particularly those exploring substitution methods and the implications of solution constraints, may find this discussion beneficial.

Mayhem
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TL;DR
Understanding this substitution for a first order homogenous equation as well as a solution to an example of such an equation.
My considers a type of differential equation $$\frac{\mathrm{d} y}{\mathrm{d} x} = f\left(\frac{y}{x} \right )$$ and proposes that it can be solved by letting ##v(x) = \frac{y}{x}## which is equivalent to ##y = xv(x)##. Then it says $$\frac{\mathrm{d} y}{\mathrm{d} x} = v + x\frac{\mathrm{d} v}{\mathrm{d} x}$$ without any further explanation. Is it correctly understand that it just let's ##\frac{\mathrm{d} y}{\mathrm{d} x} = y' = \left(xv(x) \right)' = v + x \frac{\mathrm{d} v}{\mathrm{d} x} ## ?

Next, I would like to ask if I'm understanding this right. For the DE $$\frac{\mathrm{d} y}{\mathrm{d} x} = \frac{x^2+xy+y^2}{x^2}$$ the solution is $$y = x\tan{\left(\ln(|x|) + C \right)}$$ (I got the same answer as the book). But shouldn't it be noted that this solution is only true for ##-\pi/2 < y/x < \pi/2##? The book mentions nothing of the sort in the answer key.
 
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Mayhem said:
Summary:: Understanding this substitution for a first order homogenous equation as well as a solution to an example of such an equation.

My considers a type of differential equation $$\frac{\mathrm{d} y}{\mathrm{d} x} = f\left(\frac{y}{x} \right )$$ and proposes that it can be solved by letting ##v(x) = \frac{y}{x}## which is equivalent to ##y = xv(x)##. Then it says $$\frac{\mathrm{d} y}{\mathrm{d} x} = v + x\frac{\mathrm{d} v}{\mathrm{d} x}$$ without any further explanation. Is it correctly understand that it just let's ##\frac{\mathrm{d} y}{\mathrm{d} x} = y' = \left(xv(x) \right)' = v + x \frac{\mathrm{d} v}{\mathrm{d} x} ## ?
Yes.
Next, I would like to ask if I'm understanding this right. For the DE $$\frac{\mathrm{d} y}{\mathrm{d} x} = \frac{x^2+xy+y^2}{x^2}$$ the solution is $$y = x\tan{\left(\ln(|x|) + C \right)}$$ (I got the same answer as the book). But shouldn't it be noted that this solution is only true for ##-\pi/2 < y/x < \pi/2##? The book mentions nothing of the sort in the answer key.

To determine C, you need to apply an initial condition y(x_0) = y_0 where x_0 \neq 0. Using a more convenient definition of C the general solution is <br /> y = x\tan \left( \ln \left| \frac{x}{x_0}\right| + C\right) where the aboluste value signs are not strictly necessary as x and x_0 will have the same sign so x/x_0 &gt; 0 and we obtain <br /> \frac{y_0}{x_0} = \tan C. Now the range of \tan is the whole of \mathbb{R} so such a C always exists, and is equal to \arctan(y_0/x_0) \in (-\frac 12\pi, \frac12\pi).

The solution is valid for -\frac{\pi}{2} &lt; \ln \left|\frac{x}{x_0}\right| + \arctan\left(\frac{y_0}{x_0}\right) &lt; \frac{\pi}{2}..
 
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pasmith said:
Yes.To determine C, you need to apply an initial condition y(x_0) = y_0 where x_0 \neq 0. Using a more convenient definition of C the general solution is <br /> y = x\tan \left( \ln \left| \frac{x}{x_0}\right| + C\right) where the aboluste value signs are not strictly necessary as x and x_0 will have the same sign so x/x_0 &gt; 0 and we obtain <br /> \frac{y_0}{x_0} = \tan C. Now the range of \tan is the whole of \mathbb{R} so such a C always exists, and is equal to \arctan(y_0/x_0) \in (-\frac 12\pi, \frac12\pi).

The solution is valid for -\frac{\pi}{2} &lt; \ln \left|\frac{x}{x_0}\right| + \arctan\left(\frac{y_0}{x_0}\right) &lt; \frac{\pi}{2}..
How do I learn to think like this? I don't think this line of reasoning would have come to me no matter how long I looked at the problem.
 
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Mayhem said:
How do I learn to think like this?
Experience.
Solving differential equations requires a bag of tricks that you learn as you go along.
 
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Mark44 said:
Experience.
Solving differential equations requires a bag of tricks that you learn as you go along.
Seems reasonable. I think the same is true for integrals.
 

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