Velocity of rotation at the edge of the Galaxies

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the rotational speed of galaxies, exploring various theoretical explanations and claims made in a linked article. Participants examine the validity of statements regarding the speed of light in gravitational fields, the nature of space-time curvature, and the concept of dark matter in relation to galaxy rotation.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the accuracy of a claim in the linked article regarding the speed of light being reduced in a gravitational field, suggesting that this foundational statement may undermine the rest of the article.
  • Another participant argues that the statement about light speed is not entirely incorrect, proposing a model that treats space-time curvature in a specific way, while acknowledging that this approach can be misinterpreted.
  • A different viewpoint is presented regarding the relative nature of light speed measurements between different gravitational fields, introducing concepts of gravitational time dilation and length contraction.
  • Concerns are raised about specific claims in the article, particularly regarding the assertion that elementary particles are composed of sub-particles orbiting at light speed, which some physicists may dispute.
  • Participants express skepticism about the claim that dark matter could be explained by the stream of photons from stars, questioning the evidence supporting this assertion.
  • A participant advises against linking to sources perceived as unreliable or lacking credibility.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants exhibit disagreement on several key points, particularly regarding the nature of light speed in gravitational fields and the validity of claims made in the linked article. No consensus is reached on these issues.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include potential misunderstandings of complex concepts such as space-time curvature, gravitational effects on light speed, and the nature of dark matter. The discussion reflects varying levels of familiarity with advanced physics topics.

talksabcd
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I found an interesting explanation for rotational speed of the galaxies in the below link at section 7.1

http://www.ag-physics.org/gravity/

Can anyone comment on this ?
 
Astronomy news on Phys.org
The first sentence of that link goes like this:

It is a well proven fact that the speed of light is reduced in a gravitational field.

This is wrong. I assume the rest relies on this so I didn't bother reading it.
 
That particular statement isn't completely wrong: it is common and reasonable to model the space-time curvature that way, treating the geometry as flat but assigning refractive index around mass. Kinda like the whole PPN approach.. But then it can be taken too literally..

there is no longer a need for the assumption of a curved space-time in order to explain the phenomena named above

No doubt it's easy to come up with (other) phenomena that do require curvature.. at least in order to be explained in a simple and consistent manner.

..just realized, my choice of the word "simple" may be disputable. :wink: Funny how differential geometry seems so difficult to those who haven't learned the math yet, and seems so elegant to those who've spent time using it.
 
Last edited:
What he meant was reduction in velocity of light is just relative not absolute.

Example:
Suppose we are doing two experiments to find the velocity of speed of light
on Earth and Moon then both will get the same value C but velocity of light on the Earth measured from moon will be lower due to gravitational length contraction and time dilation on Earth and vice-versa from the earth.

Further explanation:

As there would be gravitational time dilation and length contraction on earth
relative to moon, velocity of light should be reduced as time is running slow by
a factor of x and length is contracted by a factor x on Earth when observed from moon. So the apparent velocity of light on Earth observed from moon will
be C(changed) = Changed length/Changed time = d x^2/t. So apparent velocity of light on Earth when observed from moon would be reduced by a factor of x^2.
 
Just picking the low hanging fruit from the article:

"2. the basic model of matter. That means that elementary particles are built by sub-particles, which orbit each other at the speed of light c"

A surprising number of particle physicists would have issues with this assertion.

"And there is a lot of evidence that the "Dark Matter" which is assumed to be necessary to explain the stability of rotating galaxies is in fact the stream of photons emitted by every hot star."

What evidence? It is customary to provide credible, published, reference sources.
 
Please don't link to crank sites.
 

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