Visualizing 4D Euclidian Space: A Book for Mind-Boggling Effects

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the challenges and methods of visualizing four-dimensional Euclidean space, as presented by an author who has written a book on the subject. The conversation explores theoretical implications, artistic representations, and potential avenues for sharing the work with a broader audience.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Meta-discussion

Main Points Raised

  • One participant notes that while visualizing 4D space is impossible in a native sense, various tricks can enhance understanding, as described in the author's book.
  • Another participant expresses interest in the book and suggests that some individuals may possess a natural ability to visualize higher dimensions, potentially influencing their understanding of the topic.
  • Several participants inquire about the methods used for generating visualizations, with suggestions for using tools like GeoGebra or Glowscript to create interactive content.
  • The author explains that they used a custom Python program for simulations but opted for artistic illustrations to make the concepts more accessible to a wider audience.
  • There are discussions about the potential for publishing the book as an e-book to reach more readers and recover costs associated with illustrations.
  • Concerns are raised about the reliability of interactive content due to past experiences with technology changes, such as the decline of Java.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express interest in the book and its concepts, but there is no consensus on the best methods for visualizing 4D space or the most effective way to share the book with potential readers. The discussion includes various suggestions and opinions without a clear agreement.

Contextual Notes

Participants mention limitations related to technology and the evolving nature of interactive content, highlighting concerns about the longevity and accessibility of such tools.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to individuals exploring higher-dimensional mathematics, artists seeking inspiration for visual representations, and those involved in the publishing of niche scientific literature.

Hornbein
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Decades ago I read that it was impossible to visualize a four dimensional Euclidian space. I decided to try to do that. It isn't possible to see a 4D space as a native would -- we don't have 4D hardware -- but through various tricks one can do better than nothing. So I wrote a book about the results and had it illustrated.

The book is based on the 19th century mathematics of William Clifford. Math is death in the marketplace so the book contains none of that, just the effects. What surfing would be like, what pizza or automobiles would be like, things like that. There is a website occupied by the five or so mathematicians who are interested in this so I got one of them to approve of the manuscript. I've earned a masters degree in math from a fancy university and the math is quite simple, basic linear algebra, it's just a question of how to visualize the results. The main difference is that according to Clifford things in a four dimensional universe rotate quite differently. The exotic rotation of a 4D Earth would have big effects on everyday life and climate. In 4D a rifle would offer no advantage over a musket. Be assured that I don't claim any such 4D objects could exist, it's strictly a pedogogical tool, an intellectual exercise. If you can't imagine what everyday objects would have to be like in a 4D universe, then can you say you really understand 4D?

When it got to the point of advertising the book I found out that I couldn't stand doing that, so I decided to give it away free. I've had a few readers, but it would be nice to have more than five. It's not about our universe so it isn't physics. There are no characters or plot so its not what people would expect from science fiction. The world building community might be interested but having an extra spatial dimension is radical. This would be for people who want to have their minds boggled. What would you suggest I do to find those few who would be interested?
 
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“but it would be nice to have more than five.”

I’d be happy to make it 6.
 
Seven, even. Or 7, odd? I have read and enjoyed books describing the mathematics inherent in M.C. Escher's paintings. Your book sounds interesting, more so with underlying equations.

Research on standardized testing supports the theme that some people 'think geometrically'; i.e., possesses innate ability to spatially locate objects, to mentally rotate surface asymmetric n-dimensional objects to form sets, etc. If these results accurately measure 'geometric' or 'topological' mental ability, innate or acquired; such people might be able to visualize multiple physical dimensions more readily than those lacking this hypothetical ability.
 
Sounds interesting.
 
What did you use to generate the visualizations?

If you can render it with (say) GeoGebra or Glowscript
and then embed the visualization in your book (in epub?),
your book can be interactive.
It could attract more attention.

https://wiki.geogebra.org/en/Embedding_in_Webpages
See https://vpython.org/presentation2018/noinstall.html
(e.g. https://www.wired.com/2015/04/dare-change-numerical-calculation/ ).

Some examples of GeoGebra that may be of interest
https://www.geogebra.org/m/yvNYFtFS (someone's visualization of geometric algebra)
https://www.geogebra.org/m/GXtFTDTW (someone's assignment on non-euclidean geometry)
https://www.geogebra.org/m/c4wHSCSj (someone's book on Escher and hyperbolic geometry)
https://www.geogebra.org/m/pr63mk3j (my recent visualization of light cones)
 
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robphy said:
What did you use to generate the visualizations?

If you can render it with (say) GeoGebra or Glowscript
and then embed the visualization in your book (in epub?),
your book can be interactive.
It could attract more attention.

https://wiki.geogebra.org/en/Embedding_in_Webpages
See https://vpython.org/presentation2018/noinstall.html
(e.g. https://www.wired.com/2015/04/dare-change-numerical-calculation/ ).

Some examples of GeoGebra that may be of interest
https://www.geogebra.org/m/yvNYFtFS (someone's visualization of geometric algebra)
https://www.geogebra.org/m/GXtFTDTW (someone's assignment on non-euclidean geometry)
https://www.geogebra.org/m/c4wHSCSj (someone's book on Escher and hyperbolic geometry)
https://www.geogebra.org/m/pr63mk3j (my recent visualization of light cones)
I used a from-scratch Python program to simulate the seasons and climate of a 4D planet. This drew the results as graphics, but I felt that the results were too sophisticated for the book. I didn't want to exclude people who don't like or can't read graphs. Instead of such abstract results I hired artists to make drawings of 4D superhighways, animals, houses, and so forth. I presented the exotic and esoteric subject matter in as down to Earth a fashion as I could. I figured that even if reader didn't understand a word, they might at least like the illustrations.

I'm also pretty chary of anything interactive. Who knows whether it will work on Windows 7 or whatever? Then there's what happened to Java. A friend have a very nice website that depended on that. When Java was killed the website went with it. I'll stick with PDFs. Even that isn't perfectly safe, but what can you do.
 
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I have sent personal messages to the three responders with a link to the book. Just making sure y'all know.
 
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:raises hand hopefully:
 
Have you thought about publishing it as an e-book on Amazon (or elsewhere)? I hear they have a pretty streamlined process for doing that. Setting the price even just to a few or a dozen bucks might recover some of the costs you seem to have incurred in hiring the artists. But more importantly, it would be publicly available, open to reviews, and subject to search queries and algorithmic recommendations. I'd be sure to buy it myself as it sounds like my kind of jam.
 
  • #10
Hornbein said:
When Java was killed the website went with it.
What? Java's dead? I am so out of the loop post-retirement. :cool:
 
  • #11
Klystron said:
What? Java's dead? I am so out of the loop post-retirement. :cool:
Yeah. It was very insecure, and Sun lost interest.
 
  • #13
Hornbein said:
I'm also pretty chary of anything interactive. Who knows whether it will work on Windows 7 or whatever? Then there's what happened to Java. A friend have a very nice website that depended on that. When Java was killed the website went with it. I'll stick with PDFs. Even that isn't perfectly safe, but what can you do.

The internet is full of things that come and go. .. e.g. Flash, Java, ...

I was enthusiastic about VRML for visualizing electromagnetism and relativity.
After VRML dropped off, I stumbled on VPython back in 2001 or so.
I was hesitant to invest effort in something that might also drop off.
But I kept on with VPython, which has evolved into https://glowscript.org/ (using Javascript... which can be embedded in a webpage) and VPython in a Jupyter notebook.

Some Physics simulations that started as java or flash (e.g. https://phet.colorado.edu/ https://www.falstad.com/ ) have moved to Javascript and HTML5 (some using CheepJ and other similar methods).

Well... my suggestion was just that: a suggestion to help you attract attention to your work.

Good luck.
 

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