News Was the Pope justified in criticizing climate change activists?

[Benzoate]

I think the pope has the right to expressed his opinion on global warming just like any politician or political pundit . Its up to us to decide whether to take him seriously or not.I personally believe people should look at research papers on global warming instead of paying $10 to see a documentary at the movies .

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Essentially that is what I'm saying. His personal beliefs (based on Catholicism) will bias his opinion, so by being the Pope it seems his personal biases (based on Catholicism) would influence his actions as well as his statements.

I'm not stating that Catholicism has anything to due with global warming or anthing in the teaches of Catholicism have anything to due with it (it might but I have no idea).

That's my point. Having been raised Catholic myself [no longer though], I don't see how his faith would have any influence on his opinion. For one, Catholics are not prophetic. They also accept and teach scientific concepts in their schools, like evolution. The church even runs it's own telescope - The Pope Scope.

 

[stewartcs]

Why is mine sooo much bigger than yours?

(this is so embarassing, I'm staying out of your threads from now on!)

Hey haven't you ever heard size doesn't matter!

 

[Ivan Seeking]

The point isn't that he is an expert on GW or not, the point is that he communicates directly with God and that he is right.

The pope does not claim to be in direct communication with God any more than anyone else who prays.

His religion dictates that the world will end with Armaggedon, not global warming. Since the good book is the word of God, anything we say that contradicts that is just plain wrong... and he isn't afraid to tell us so.

I don't think this represents the Catholic view of things. They don't interpret Revelations as do most pop religions. Either way, religion also dicates that we were created by God but Catholics believe in evolution.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

It's certainly not personal opinion, the Pope is privy to information at pretty much the same level as other world leaders and would certainly be privy to the truth on climate change before it's re-packaged for the public, and he has apparently decided to blow the whistle on the scare mongerers... The gig is up. Kudos to the Pope!

That is an interesting point of view. So now can we expect a bunch of Pope papers in Earth sciences?

I tend to prefer better sources.

 

[stewartcs]

...Either way, religion also dicates that we were created by God but Catholics believe in evolution.

How can you believe in evolution and also believe God created you?

 

[Ivan Seeking]

How can you believe in evolution and also believe God created you?

If you believe that everything exists because of God then that would have to include evolution.

Unless one is bound by a rigorously literal interpretation of the Bible, there is no logical mandate to exclude science from one's belief system. Very few classically mainstream religions take the bible on completely literal terms. In fact this is part of the reason for the rise in the evangelical and other more extreme religions - they make everything very simple and provide all of our answers.

 

[Moonbear]

Article #7 is pretty much verbatim what they printed in the article.

Um, it only seems consistent with the first sentence and not with these parts:

The leader of more than a billion Roman Catholics suggested that fears over man-made emissions melting the ice caps and causing a wave of unprecedented disasters were nothing more than scare-mongering.

The German-born Pontiff said that while some concerns may be valid it was vital that the international community based its policies on science rather than the dogma of the environmentalist movement.

I don't see anything in the official Vatican paper about scaremongering, man-made emissions or melting ice caps. Nor do I see it mentioning anything about "dogma of the environmentalist movement." Maybe I missed it.

He really just seems to be endorsing the same thing that a lot of people here endorse...we should be good stewards of the planet we live on, and that means not jumping to hasty conclusions or acting outside of what good science tells us is the best course of action. He seems to basically be saying to let the scientists do their job, and be patient in letting them do so thoroughly, so we have the best information possible before making decisions that might make things worse rather than better.

Stewardship of the Earth is a Catholic issue, and that's the authority from which he speaks on the subject.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Stewardship of the Earth is a Catholic issue, and that's the authority from which he speaks on the subject.

True. He doesn't claim to talk to God, but it is his job to determine the official church view of world events and other issues.

 

[siddharth]

The German-born Pontiff said that while some concerns may be valid it was vital that the international community based its policies on science rather than the dogma of the environmentalist movement.

Right of course but deliciously ironic.

 

[chemisttree]

True. He doesn't claim to talk to God, but it is his job to determine the official church view of world events and other issues.

I believe that he has claimed to have spoken to God. In the words of Pope Benedict XVI

"Ars celebrandi": here too I would say that there are different dimensions. The first dimension is that the "celebration" is prayer and a conversation with God: God with us and us with God. Thus, the first requirement for a good celebration is that the priest truly enter this colloquy.

In proclaiming the Word, he feels himself in conversation with God. He is a listener to the Word and a preacher of the Word, in the sense that he makes himself an instrument of the Lord and seeks to understand this Word of God which he must then transmit to the people. He is in a conversation with God because the texts of holy Mass are not theatrical scripts or anything like them, but prayers, thanks to which, together with the assembly, I speak to God.

...Thus, to be well in tune, it is very important to understand this structure that developed over time and to enter with our "mens" into the "vox" of the Church. To the extent that we have interiorized this structure, comprehended this structure, assimilated the words of the liturgy, we can enter into this inner consonance and thus not only speak to God as individuals, but enter into the "we" of the Church, which is praying. And we thus transform our "I" in this way, by entering into the "we" of the Church, enriching and enlarging this "I," praying with the Church, with the words of the Church, truly being in conversation with God.

Furthermore, he claims to go beyond a simple one on one discussion but to communicate on behalf of the entire 'we' of the church, something a bit more than the parishioner alone can do.

http://www.miraclerosarymission.org/liturgy.html

 

[gravenewworld]

Since the good book is the word of God, anything we say that contradicts that is just plain wrong... and he isn't afraid to tell us so.

Actually Catholics don't take the Bible literally at all. That would be other Christian denominations. I went to a Catholic grade school, high school, and college. Learned about evolution at every single level.

And like Ivan said Revelations according to Catholic theology is nothing more than a book filled with symbolism and was written during the time of Roman persecution. Catholics don't take that book literally at all or believe that it contains any prophecies. There will be Catholics out there who will disagree with what I just said, but they are not up to date on Church teaching.

 

[Evo]

Actually Catholics don't take the Bible literally at all. That would be other Christian denominations. I went to a Catholic grade school, high school, and college. Learned about evolution at every single level.

And like Ivan said Revelations according to Catholic theology is nothing more than a book filled with symbolism and was written during the time of Roman persecution. Catholics don't take that book literally at all or believe that it contains any prophecies. There will be Catholics out there who will disagree with what I just said, but they are not up to date on Church teaching.

True, Catholics don't use the bible, they use the Roman Catholic Missal. I don't ever remember reading from the bible in all of my years at catechism or mass.

 

[wolram]

Pope inoceti and his 6 hundred year reign will answer most questions.

 

[Pelt]

I think the pope has the right to expressed his opinion on global warming just like any politician or political pundit.

He apparently has the right not to express any opinion on climate change, a right he seems to have exercised.

 

[gravenewworld]

True, Catholics don't use the bible, they use the Roman Catholic Missal. I don't ever remember reading from the bible in all of my years at catechism or mass.

?


During the Liturgy in a Catholic mass 3 readings are read from Bible.

Usually in a typical mass the priest will conduct the mass from the Missal and during the Liturgy someone from the audience will come up to the podium and read a segment from the Bible.

 

[Evo]

?


During the Liturgy in a Catholic mass 3 readings are read from Bible.

Usually in a typical mass the priest will conduct the mass from the Missal and during the Liturgy someone from the audience will come up to the podium and read a segment from the Bible.

Not in our church.

Mostly Father Nelson would read from the Missal, then crack jokes, oh, and we'd sing a lot, but that was back when it was all in Latin.

 

[Jimmy Snyder]

Mostly Father Nelson would read from the Missal, then crack jokes, oh, and we'd sing a lot, but that was back when it was all in Latin.

Do you remember any of these Latin jokes?

 

[Evo]

Do you remember any of these Latin jokes?

The jokes were in English.

He was excommunicted when I was 11 for being married and having 10 children, seriously. That's when I quit the church, I told my mother I refused to attend anymore and she understood. Father Nelson was a wonderful man and the best priest I'd ever met and for the church to have such ridiculous rules was the last straw.

 

[mgb_phys]

He was excommunicted when I was 11 for being married and having 10 children

A priest of having sex with a consenting adult female - deviant!

 

[drankin]

A priest of having sex with a consenting adult female - deviant!

That's strictly a Catholic doctrine and not a biblical decree. This is one of the reason Martin Luther broke away from the Catholic church of the time.

 

[Evo]

That's strictly a Catholic doctrine and not a biblical decree. This is one of the reason Martin Luther broke away from the Catholic church of the time.

I thought he mainly broke off due to his anger over the Catholic church selling "redemption" to restock the coffers that the corrupt Medici Pope bankrupted on his lavish lifestyle.

 

[gravenewworld]

Do you remember any of these Latin jokes?

ubi o ubi est meam sub ubi?


modo fac id


those are some I remember from high school. man just saying those makes me miss how beautiful Latin is.

 

[drankin]

I thought he mainly broke off due to his anger over the Catholic church selling "redemption" to restock the coffers that the corrupt Medici Pope bankrupted on his lavish lifestyle.

Nope. That was just one of the many reasons. The big one was that the Catholic church at the time wouldn't let commoners read "God's Word" for themselves. They weren't "worthy" which shows the arrogance of the Church at the time. By doing this the Catholic church interpreted the "Word" as was beneficial to the Church and the devout commoners had to take it at as "The Gospel". Had they been able to read the "Word" for themselves they would have realized that you cannot buy "redemption" and Church would not have been able ring money out of the commoners. Luther went against the grain risking his own life and in a sense rescued sincere people from the Churches deception.

 

[Jimmy Snyder]

ubi o ubi est meam sub ubi?

modo fac id

 

[gravenewworld]

There other way of saying "Just do it!" is "Id tantum fac!"

 

[mheslep]

That's strictly a Catholic doctrine and not a biblical decree. This is one of the reason Martin Luther broke away from the Catholic church of the time.

I thought he mainly broke off due to his anger over the Catholic church selling "redemption" to restock the coffers that the corrupt Medici Pope bankrupted on his lavish lifestyle.

You are both right. More generally, the reformation was theologically about getting back to the precepts of 1st-2nd century Christianity and dumping on the ash heap most any baggage produced later. That would include both redemption payoffs and celibacy for the clergy.

 

[Art]

He was excommunicted when I was 11 for being married and having 10 children, seriously. That's when I quit the church, I told my mother I refused to attend anymore and she understood. Father Nelson was a wonderful man and the best priest I'd ever met and for the church to have such ridiculous rules was the last straw.

Celibacy has been in and out of fashion many times in the RC church with 7 popes being married themselves and 11 being the sons of clerics with a further 6 known to have had illegitimate offspring.

The attitude to celibacy was fairly lax in recent times with the church turning a blind eye to the priests who had sexual relationships until John Paul 11 who tightened things up considerably and banned dispensations although married Protestant pastors who converted were still accepted for ordination.

 

[denverdoc]

IIRC, help me out historians of science, the catholic church did not take kindly to scientific commentary re their worldview. As a result Galileo suffered in purgatory needlessly for 400 years, until enuf evidence accrued for the church to change its mind. So as a Catholic, I hear this guy suggesting, let's see, jury is still out. If that's not enuf of a red flag, then I'm reading this wrong. And yes, it does sound like US PR--which after the denunciation from the Papal throne re Iraq, must have George dubya, himself privvy with inside info, including the main man himself, feeling all warm and tingly.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

denverdoc,
If you pray on it I'm sure that you will feel differently.

Welcome back.