Way Way Bigger than Canis Majoris?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the possibility of stars existing that are so massive that light cannot escape their gravity, akin to black holes. Participants explore theoretical limits of star size and mass, the definitions of stars, and the implications of gravitational forces in relation to light emission.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that if a star were massive enough, it might behave like a black hole, suggesting a theoretical limit to star size and mass.
  • Others argue that anything exceeding a certain mass would collapse into a black hole, emphasizing the distinction between size and mass, as seen with VY Canis Majoris.
  • A participant mentions the escape velocity of neutron stars, suggesting it is around 100,000 km/s, although this is not universally accepted.
  • One viewpoint suggests that as stars grow larger, they radiate more intensely and may lose their outer layers, preventing them from reaching extreme sizes.
  • Another participant questions the existence of a star that does not emit light, stating that such an object would not meet the definition of a star.
  • A later reply introduces the concept of gravitational "slope" in spacetime, arguing that repulsive forces between matter would prevent a star from becoming so massive that it captures all emitted light.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the possibility of stars existing that behave like black holes. There is no consensus on the definitions of stars or the implications of mass and size in this context.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include varying definitions of what constitutes a star, the dependence on theoretical models of gravity, and unresolved questions about the nature of light and gravitational forces.

SYahoo
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Is it possible that there are stars in our universe so large that light cannot escape their gravity similar to a black hole?
 
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No, anything that massive becomes a black hole. Also note the difference between size and mass, whilst VY Canis Majoris is 3 billion km in diameter 2000x bigger than the sun it is only ~40x as massive. Contrast this to a Neutron star which can be 2x as massive as the sun and ~100,000x smaller.
 
I want to say the escape velocity of neutron star is something like 100,000 km/s.
 
There is a limit to how massive a star can be. As a star grows in size, it becomes hotter and radiates more intensely. After a certain point, it will just blow away its outer layers.

The largest known star is ~300 times as massive as the Sun. A black hole this massive would only be ~900 km in radius, much smaller than our Sun. A really massive star would extend past where its event horizon would need to be.
 
SYahoo said:
Is it possible that there are stars in our universe so large that light cannot escape their gravity similar to a black hole?

If there were such a star, then it would be difficult to observe its light. It would be difficult, if not impossible, to say that such a star exist.

One way of looking at black holes is that they form island universes, separated in space-time from our universe. Another way of asking your question: Is it possible to have a star that is so massive that it can form an island universe, something like a black hole?

Unlikely, the way gravity seems to work.
 
Another way to think about this is to say that the amount of gravitational "slope" in spacetime required to capture all light emitted is also too steep for the repulsive forces between matter that keep them separate. So these repulsive forces give out and matter collapses in on itself.
 
A star by definition is a self-luminous body. So if the hypothetical object in in question doesn't produce its own light-then it would automatically disqualify itself as a star. In short, according to definition, it can’t be a star and not shine.

A star is a massive, luminous sphere of plasma held together by gravity.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star

star
   /stɑr/ Show Spelled [stahr] Show IPA ,noun, adjective, verb, starred, star·ring.
noun
.2.
Astronomy . any of the large, self-luminous, heavenly bodies, as the sun, Polaris, etc.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/star

That’s why astronomers plot stars' by color, temperature, luminosity, and spectral type.

 

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