Weird question on abnormal human anatomy (hoping it not being the case)

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the observation of an unusual anatomical feature seen on a woman, specifically a tiny arm protruding from her chest. Participants explore potential explanations for this phenomenon, including developmental anomalies, genetic mutations, and the possibility of conjoined twins. The conversation touches on biological concepts and anecdotal evidence related to human anatomy.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant describes seeing a tiny arm on a woman, questioning if it could be something other than a baby.
  • Another suggests that faulty signals during fetal development could lead to abnormal cell growth, though this is met with skepticism.
  • A participant expresses doubt about the likelihood of a single-point mutation causing an arm to grow in an unusual location, citing the rarity of such occurrences in humans.
  • Some participants note that any significant anatomical abnormality would likely have been surgically corrected in affluent societies.
  • There is mention of a case where a tumor contained hair and teeth, indicating that cells can express themselves as different types, though the legitimacy of this story is questioned.
  • Multiple participants reference the phenomenon of conjoined twins as a potential explanation for extra limbs, emphasizing that this is a common cause of such abnormalities.
  • One participant reiterates that unless the individual is from a very poor background, such deformities would typically be addressed surgically during childhood.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally express skepticism about the initial observation of an extra appendage, suggesting alternative explanations. However, there is no consensus on the exact nature of the phenomenon, and multiple competing views regarding the biological mechanisms and possibilities remain present.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference various biological concepts, such as Hox genes and Sonic hedgehog, but do not reach a definitive conclusion regarding the mechanisms behind the observed anomaly. The discussion includes anecdotal evidence and personal interpretations, which may not be universally applicable.

EnumaElish
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Over the long weekend I was touring a museum whence I glanced upon a thirtysomething woman and had to look again. There was a tiny arm coming out of her chest. I thought she must be carrying her tiny baby in a receiver (?) shawl wrapped around her, but did not inquire personally. I might have seen part of her baby, or imagined it for fear of imagining the alternative...

My question is, could it have been something else?
 
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It is possible during development of a fetus for a faulty signal to be sent or received in which a group of cells may develope into something they are not supposed to be. Expression of the genes within cells determines what type of cell it becomes.
 
I find it pretty hard to believe.

First, mutations in the genes that determine body structure (like the Hox genes) usually cause incorrect branching. The organism will have more or fewer fingers, extra legs, that sort of thing -- but they will all be errors at the branching points, where the legs split and diverge. I'm not a biologist, but the chances of a single-point Hox mutation causing an arm to grow out a really abnormal place -- and not a branching point, like one's chest -- seem pretty small to me. A large number of mutations would result in death.

Also, I find it hard to believe that anyone growing up in an affluent western society would not have had surgery very early in life to remove the abnormality.

I wasn't there, of course, but I really think you must have just mistaken what you saw.

- Warren
 
You didn't happen to notice any strange lights or unusual looking eggs in the vicinity, did you? :rolleyes:

I mostly agree with Chroot. It's fairly common for lesser-developed species (especially reptiles and amphibians) to grow things in weird places, but very rare in people. I've heard of it happening, though. Most assuredly, though, something like that would have been surgically corrected. She was probably just feeding the kid or something, and part of it got away.
 
Darn it! Kuarto still gets no respect.
 
I agree that an extra appendage is not what you saw. I was just commenting that such a thing is possible. :)

I heard a story a few years ago about a huge tumor that doctors removed from a women's abdomen and in the biopsy they actually found hair and teeth. These cancer cells were actually expressing themselves as completely different cells. Of course I don't have a reference to this, so can't comment on the legitimacy of the story, but it was on a Discovery or Nova type program.

I agree that a single point mutation in a Hox gene (there are 10 of them) would do nothing. There are more key factors to appendage growth though, like Sonic hedgehog for instance which seems to play a key role in the development of limbs.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonic_hedgehog
 
I recall from my studies years ago, that most cases of{non-Hox} multiple limbs result from conjoined twins forming in development. One child does not survive and becomes essentially absorbed into the other. You may see a foot or arm on any part of the body.
 
hypatia said:
I recall from my studies years ago, that most cases of{non-Hox} multiple limbs result from conjoined twins forming in development. One child does not survive and becomes essentially absorbed into the other. You may see a foot or arm on any part of the body.

This is pretty much the only reason this would make sense (a non-surviving conjoined twin event), especially if it was protruding from someplace other than the shoulder. However, as Chroot pointed out, unless this is someone who has only recently moved from a very poor country, such an obvious deformity would have been surgically removed during childhood. Most likely, you really did see a baby swaddled up in one of those slings people use for carrying them (or perhaps the scarf was hiding the fact she was breast feeding an infant, which is why you only saw an arm sticking out).
 
BoomBoom said:
I heard a story a few years ago about a huge tumor that doctors removed from a women's abdomen and in the biopsy they actually found hair and teeth. These cancer cells were actually expressing themselves as completely different cells.
This is fairly common in tumours.
 

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