What are the fundamental forces involved in the chemical reaction?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion explores the fundamental forces involved in chemical reactions, focusing on the role of electromagnetism and other forces, while also considering implications for neuroscience from a reductionist perspective.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Technical explanation, Conceptual clarification, Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that all chemical reactions are fundamentally electrical due to the transfer or sharing of electrons.
  • Others argue that only electromagnetic forces are significant in chemical reactions, as nuclear forces are too weak at atomic distances and gravitational effects are negligible due to small masses.
  • One participant raises the question of gravity's potential influence in specific scenarios, such as turbulence in fluid reactions and precipitation reactions, suggesting a conceptual divide regarding its relevance.
  • There is mention of the Pauli exclusion principle as a necessary consideration in chemistry, though its classification as a force is debated.
  • Some participants discuss the reduction of brain functions to chemical processes, with a focus on the validity of viewing these processes through the lens of electromagnetic forces.
  • A participant seeks clarification on molecular dynamics (MD) in the context of biochemical systems and their study.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree that electromagnetic forces play a crucial role in chemical reactions, but there is no consensus on the significance of other forces like gravity or the Pauli principle. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the broader implications for neuroscience.

Contextual Notes

Participants express varying assumptions about the relevance of different forces in chemical reactions and their implications for neuroscience, indicating a need for further clarification on definitions and contexts.

Pythagorean
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I'm assuming the standard reductionist viewpoint: that chemistry is simplified quantum physics.

Of the four fundamental forces in modern physics, what forces play a role in chemical reactions? Is it safe to assume it's solely electromagnetics?
 
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Yes, from what I understand all chemical reactions involve transfer or sharing of electrons, and thus are electrical in nature.
But wiser people here can correct and/or punish me if I am wrong.
 
That's my understanding- purely electro-magnetic. The distance between atoms is too great for nuclear forces (strong and weak) to play a roll and the masses are too small for gravity to be significant.
 
HallsofIvy said:
That's my understanding- purely electro-magnetic. The distance between atoms is too great for nuclear forces (strong and weak) to play a roll and the masses are too small for gravity to be significant.

As for gravity, what about in the case of turbulence (in fluid chemical reactions) and precipitation reactions?

I suppose there's somewhat of a conceptual divide here. Gravity would have no effect on the stochiometry, for instance, because stochiometry equations assume perfect contact between reagents, but gravity may have an effect on a chemical experiment's end results if the question was a physical one.

I'm asking this question from the perspective of neurology, as to whether the reductionist view of brain science to electromagnetic forces is valid. My opinion so far is that it is.
 
Electromagnetism and the Pauli principle, whether you want to consider the latter a force or not was just debated in another thread. But in any case, exchange contributions are necessary for chemistry.

The functions of the brain are probably reducible to chemistry but there's probably no reason to go for a full chemical description. The behavior and dynamics of biochemical systems is routinely studied with quasiclassical MD simulations.
 
alxm said:
Electromagnetism and the Pauli principle, whether you want to consider the latter a force or not was just debated in another thread. But in any case, exchange contributions are necessary for chemistry.

The functions of the brain are probably reducible to chemistry but there's probably no reason to go for a full chemical description. The behavior and dynamics of biochemical systems is routinely studied with quasiclassical MD simulations.

What is MD?

I've been studying the molecular neuroscience summary from the science education forums here on PF (Thanks PF). I suppose it would be considered quasiclassical because of the chemistry backbround?

http://www.cord.edu/faculty/ulnessd/neuroscience/neuronotes.pdf
 
Last edited by a moderator:
MD=molecular dynamics
 

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