What are the underlying structures of multiple primal entities?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of primal entities and their underlying structures, exploring whether multiple types of primal entities imply the existence of more primitive entities. The conversation touches on philosophical implications as well as technical aspects related to fundamental particles and forces in physics.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested, Conceptual clarification, Meta-discussion

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that if multiple primal entity types exist, they must have underlying structures indicating more primitive entities, potentially leading to a single most primitive entity that composes the universe.
  • One participant questions the definition of a 'primal entity type,' seeking clarification on the term.
  • Another participant discusses atoms as entities that were once considered the smallest division of matter, referencing historical developments in particle physics, including the standard model and the existence of quarks.
  • It is suggested that the four fundamental forces could be viewed as primary entities from which all matter and the universe originated, with a note on the unification of these forces at high energy levels.
  • A later reply emphasizes that the discussion has philosophical elements that may not align with the forum's guidelines, suggesting a shift towards a more technical discussion about fundamental particles.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the nature of primal entities and their structures, with no consensus reached on the implications of these discussions. The philosophical nature of the topic is also contested, leading to a suggestion to focus on technical aspects instead.

Contextual Notes

The discussion includes unresolved definitions and assumptions regarding primal entities and their structures, as well as the philosophical implications of the topic, which may not fit within the forum's intended scope.

Growler
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If there exists more than one primal entity type, must not then those entities have underlying structure indicating more primitive entities, and does this not lead us to the logical conclusion that there must be a single most primitive entity which composes all that is the universe?
 
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What is a 'primal entity type'?
 
an atom is an entity, at one time it was considered to be the smallest division of matter, but of course via the raisin cookie, Neils Bohr, and the standard model, more primitive entities were proposed to exist. There are multiple quarks in the standard model... if 2 quarks differ in their properties, mustn't they have underlying structure?
 
Well, those primary entities would be the four fundamental forces, from which the entire universe - including all matter - sprung.
We know that, at sufficiently high energy, three of those forces were unified, and we're working on the fourth.
 
Growler said:
If there exists more than one primal entity type, must not then those entities have underlying structure indicating more primitive entities, and does this not lead us to the logical conclusion that there must be a single most primitive entity which composes all that is the universe?
This is a bit philosophical, which we don't allow at PF. If you would like to start a technical discussion (at the B=Basic level) about fundamental particles, please read the following links and also do some Google searching for mainstream technical articles about fundamental particles and forces (the reference links at the end of the Wikipedia articles are also a good place to start). Then start a new thread in the technical Physics forums with links to your reading and ask the specific questions that you have about that reading. That would be a good thread start at the B level.

This thread in the General Discussion forum is now closed.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elementary_particle

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_particles

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_Model
 
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