What Determines the Dependence of Dipole-Dipole Interactions on Distance?

  • Context: Graduate 
  • Thread starter Thread starter LeoYard
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Dipole Interactions
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the dependence of dipole-dipole interactions on distance, specifically questioning the sixth root dependency and whether it is derived mathematically or is empirical. The scope includes theoretical considerations and mathematical derivations related to electrostatics.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the basis for the sixth root dependency on distance in dipole-dipole interactions, seeking clarification on its empirical or theoretical origins.
  • Another participant references the Lennard-Jones potential as a related concept.
  • A different participant asserts that the long-distance attraction between dipoles can be theoretically derived from electrostatics, suggesting that others can seek help if needed.
  • One participant explains that Coulomb's law indicates the electric field from a point charge decreases with the square of the radius, but for dipoles, the situation is more complex due to their configuration.
  • Another participant corrects earlier claims, stating that a dipole field decreases as 1/r^3 at large distances, and mentions that the interaction energy of two permanent dipoles varies as 1/r^3, while induced dipoles lead to a 1/r^6 dependency.
  • One participant discusses the mathematical reasoning behind the radial orders in the field's denominator, linking it to Coulomb forces and binomial expansion as dipole separation approaches zero.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the mathematical derivation of the sixth root dependency, with some asserting theoretical foundations while others emphasize empirical observations. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the exact nature of the dependency.

Contextual Notes

There are unresolved assumptions regarding the definitions of dipole moments and the conditions under which the sixth root dependency applies. The discussion also reflects varying interpretations of electrostatic principles.

LeoYard
Messages
16
Reaction score
0
What is the basis for the sixth root dependancy on the inverse of the distance between the dipoles (in any dipole-dipole interaction)? Is it empirical or can it be mathematically derived?
 
Physics news on Phys.org
Though I should add that it is possible to derive the long distance attraction between dipoles theoretically. It's an elementary exercise in electrostatics -- if you get stuck, post your efforts here and I'm sure PF members will guide you.
 
Thank you, genneth. Coulomb's law states that the electric field from a point charge drops as the square of the radius. Put two charges at the same place and you get zero electric field, so the two charges need to be slightly displaced. However, as you go to large radii, the separation between the two charges becomes irrelevant, so that starts to look more like a zero-charge object.
 
Not quite. A dipole field falls off as 1/r^3 at large distances -- it's a tedious calculation, but you should learn to do it anyway, since it's quite typical of mathematical analysis of physics. Another dipole would feel 1/r^4 attraction. However, the usual law assumes induced dipole moments, so you get another 1/r^2 factor.

(I think -- all this is off the top of my head.)
 
LeoYard said:
What is the basis for the sixth root dependancy on the inverse of the distance between the dipoles (in any dipole-dipole interaction)? Is it empirical or can it be mathematically derived?
I assume you mean the the potential energy falls like 1/r^6.
The interaction energy of a dipole in an electric field = -p.E.
E of a dipole varies like 1/r^3, so the energy of two permanent dipoles varies like 1/r^3.
The 1/r^6 results if the dipole moments are induced dipoles, that is each dipole moment is caused by the E field of the other dipole. This gives another factor of 1/r^3,
resulting in the 1/r^6 for the energy of two induced dipoles.
 
Four of the six radial orders in the field's denominator represent the permutations for Coulomb forces between the charges in the two dipoles. Binomial expansion with dipole separation approaching zero accounts for the extra two orders of displacement.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
1K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 21 ·
Replies
21
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
3K
  • · Replies 10 ·
Replies
10
Views
1K
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
2K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
Replies
1
Views
2K