What does function mean in mathematics?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of a function in mathematics, specifically in the context of distance and time as related variables. Participants explore different formulations of functions, their definitions, and implications in both real and complex analysis.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that distance can be expressed as a function of time (d = f(t)), while time can also be expressed as a function of distance (t = f(d)), depending on the context of the motion of the automobile.
  • Others argue that if the automobile halts at a certain time, then time cannot be a function of distance, as the same distance would correspond to multiple times.
  • A participant emphasizes the mathematical definition of a function as a set of ordered pairs where each input corresponds to exactly one output, questioning the implications of this definition in the context of multi-valued functions in complex analysis.
  • Some participants discuss the historical context and evolution of the term "multivalued function," noting that it may conflict with the strict definition of a function.
  • There are mentions of the codomain and range of functions, with questions raised about their definitions and relationships.
  • A participant reflects on the variability of mathematical terminology and the role of community consensus in defining terms.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the definitions and implications of functions, particularly in relation to real versus complex analysis. There is no consensus on the implications of multi-valued functions or the strictness of function definitions.

Contextual Notes

Some discussions touch on the limitations of definitions, such as the requirement for inputs and outputs to be real numbers, and the distinction between range and codomain, which remain unresolved.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to those studying mathematics, particularly in understanding the foundational concepts of functions, their definitions, and the nuances in different mathematical contexts.

abhijath
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The distance covered by a car at time t=0 is 0 / at time t= 1 is 10 km/ at time t= 5 is 50 km,

With this example can you explain, what is function of what? f(d) or f(t),
 
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The question does not make sense.

Distance as function of time can be formulated as function, time as function of distance can be written down as a function as well.
We can also find your post count as function of time, which should be 1 as you posted here, @Greg Bernhardt can check what happened.
 
At a given time, the automobile will be at a specific distance at any time so distance, d, will be a function of time, t. If it happens that the automobile continues in a straight line so it is never at the same distance for two different times, then time, t, is also a function of distance, d.
 
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HallsofIvy said:
At a given time, the automobile will be at a specific distance at any time so distance, d, will be a function of time, t. If it happens that the automobile continues in a straight line so it is never at the same distance for two different times, then time, t, is also a function of distance, d.
thanks for your reply sir,

ok so it means that d=f(t) and also t=f(d), now as you said if distance is never same for two different times then t=f(d), but wat if the car comes to halt at time t=6, wether still time can be said as function of distance t=f(d)?
 
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It's hard to read your posts.

You should not use the same name ("f") for two different functions.
abhijath said:
but wat if the car comes to halt at time t=6, wether still time can be said as function of distance t=f(d)?
No, as the distance is the same for two different points in time.
 
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You titled this "What does function mean in mathematics so I was using a mathematical definition of "function"- a set of ordered pairs, {(x, y)}, such that no two different pairs have the same "x"- that is (3, 4) and (3, 5) could not appear in the same function. If we write y= f(x) we want to have some way of determining what y must be for any given x. We cannot have f(3)= 4 and f(3)= 5 (though we might well have f(3)= 5 and f(4)= 5).
 
You might have the functions mixed up. If you want to choose a time and see what the distance will be, the function will look like this d = f(t). If you want to choose a distance and see what the time will be, the function will look like this: t = f(d) or f(d) = t. Same thing.

For instance, with your original example, your function is probably: d = f(t), where f(t) = 10t, so you have [d = f(t)] => [1 = 10(0)] => [10 = 10(1)] => [50 = 10(5)]

for choosing a distance and finding what the time will be:

[d = 10t] => [d/10 = t], so the function will be: [g(d) = t] => [(1/10)d = t] => [(1/10)50 = 5] => [(1/10)10 = 1] => and then you do the same thing to find the time when the distance is zero by plugging in 0 for d in the g function => g(0) = 0
 
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In complex analysis there are multi-valued functions. So there seems to be a conflict in the terminology.
 
Edwin McCravy said:
In complex analysis there are multi-valued functions. So there seems to be a conflict in the terminology.

According to WP, a misnomer (See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multivalued_function.)

'In the strict sense, a "well-defined" function associates one, and only one, output to any particular input. The term "multivalued function" is, therefore, a misnomer because functions are single-valued.'

But it also suggests the term has fallen out of use.

'The practice of allowing function in mathematics to mean also multivalued function dropped out of usage at some point in the first half of the twentieth century. Some evolution can be seen in different editions of A Course of Pure Mathematics by G. H. Hardy, for example. It probably persisted longest in the theory of special functions, for its occasional convenience.'
 
  • #10
You can find a proper function for every multivalued function if you set its codomain to the powerset instead of the original set.
As an example, for the complex logarithm you would get ln(1)= {0, 2pi i, - 2 pi i, ... }.
 
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  • #11
Thanks. I like that idea of considering the set of all possible outputs as a single output. I studied complex analysis years ago before mathematicians were concerned with such as that. This was back when topology was rubber-sheet geometry, and 1 was considered prime. (Yes I'm old!) :)
 
  • #12
Edwin McCravy said:
In complex analysis there are multi-valued functions. So there seems to be a conflict in the terminology.
Yes, but the question was clearly referring to real numbers
 
  • #13
From what I can find online, a function is a relation from a set of inputs (the domain) to a set of possible outputs (the codomain) where each input is related to exactly one output. I can find no mention of any requirement that the inputs and outputs of a function must necessarily be real numbers (or even numbers at all!) What about the "range"? Is the range necessarily the same as, or only a subset of, the codomain?) One professor I had in grad school back in the 60's always spoke of "the set of departures" and "the set of arrivals". I only taught undergraduate mathematics, col alg, trig, discrete, three calculi and diffy-Q, so all this extreme precision in terminology was no big deal. I often wonder who gets to decide mathematical terminology anyway, or is it really cut-and-dried?

.
 
  • #14
Edwin McCravy said:
I can find no mention of any requirement that the inputs and outputs of a function must necessarily be real numbers (or even numbers at all!)
They don't have to be, but times and distances (see post 1) are usuallly expressed with real numbers.
Edwin McCravy said:
What about the "range"? Is the range necessarily the same as, or only a subset of, the codomain?)
It can be a (nontrivial) subset.
Edwin McCravy said:
I often wonder who gets to decide mathematical terminology anyway, or is it really cut-and-dried?
Community consensus.
 

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