What Insights Do Probability Plots of Atomic Partons in Hydrogen Reveal?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the interpretation of probability plots of atomic partons in hydrogen, specifically in relation to atomic orbitals and the concept of fractional charge. Participants explore the implications of experimental observations, quantum mechanics, and the analogy to parton models in protons.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that the probability plot of an atomic orbital could lead to a parton-like hypothesis for atoms, questioning whether sub-clouds could be considered as elementary particles with fractional charge.
  • Another participant argues against the idea of fractional charge, stating that dividing the orbital into sub-clouds is merely imposing a pattern and does not reflect any physical reality.
  • A different viewpoint emphasizes that while the probability distribution exists, it does not imply fractional charge for electrons.
  • There is a reference to deep inelastic scattering (DIS) as a hypothetical analogy, although this is contested by another participant who asserts that it is unrelated to the concept of fractional charge.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express disagreement regarding the interpretation of probability distributions and the concept of fractional charge in relation to atomic structure. No consensus is reached on the validity of considering sub-clouds as partons or the implications of experimental patterns.

Contextual Notes

The discussion includes assumptions about the nature of atomic structure and the interpretation of experimental data, which remain unresolved. The relationship between probability distributions and physical charge is also a point of contention.

Bob_for_short
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Let us consider an atomic orbital, for example n=2, l=1, m=0 in Hydrogen. The probability plot is given in the figure attached. This picture can be obtained experimentally: via X-ray and elastic electron scattering. Each negative sub-cloud carries a fractional charge. Fortunately, we have quantum mechanics to explain it but if the scattering experiments had been carried out before QM establishing, would we have advanced a parton-like hypothesis for atoms?

I do not know if it would be correct to consider each sub-cloud as an "elementary" particle with a fractional charge. Do you?
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It's no more correct than to say that the left half of the 1s distribution has charge 1/2 and the right half also has charge 1/2.
 
I did not understand your phrase.

I wanted to say that considering each sub-cloud as originating from some elementary particles (atomic partons) would be misleading.
 
Dividing the orbital into "subclouds" is imposing your sense of pattern recognition on it. There's nothing whatsoever like a particle with fractional charge.
 
This pattern can be observed experimentally, can't it?

Why we advance a parton model for protons? Following the experimental pattern.
 
Bob, this is silly. An electron has charge -1. The fact that it has a probability distribution doesn't mean anything has a factional charge.
 
Vanadium 50 said:
Bob, this is silly. An electron has charge -1. The fact that it has a probability distribution doesn't mean anything has a factional charge.

I completely agree with you. Concerning atoms, I speak of a purely hypothetical situation. But it is similar to the deep inelastic scattering interpretation, isn't it?
 
No Bob, it has nothing whatsoever to do with fractional charge and DIS.

I have answered your question four times now. This thread is done.
 

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