What is the angle and rate of change when flying a kite?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the dynamics of flying a kite, specifically focusing on the angle between the kite string and the ground, as well as the rate of change of this angle over time. Participants explore the geometry of the situation, the relationship between the height of the kite and the length of the string, and the implications of these relationships on the angle and its rate of change. The discussion includes mathematical reasoning and calculations related to these concepts.

Discussion Character

  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Technical explanation
  • Exploratory

Main Points Raised

  • One participant describes the scenario with specific measurements and asks for help with calculating the angle and its rate of change.
  • Another participant points out a misunderstanding regarding the rate of height increase versus the unwinding speed of the kite string.
  • There is a suggestion to generalize the angle as a function of time to facilitate differentiation.
  • Participants discuss the correct formulation of the angle in terms of the length of the string and the horizontal distance.
  • One participant expresses confusion regarding the units of the rate of change of the angle, questioning whether it is in degrees or meters per second.
  • Clarifications are provided regarding the units used in calculations, specifically noting that the rate of change of the angle is in radians per second.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants exhibit some agreement on the mathematical approach to finding the angle and its rate of change, but there are disagreements regarding the interpretation of certain variables and the correct formulation of the angle as a function of time. The discussion remains unresolved on some aspects, particularly regarding the understanding of units and the implications of the calculations.

Contextual Notes

Participants have not fully resolved the assumptions regarding the relationship between the height of the kite and the rate at which the string is unwound. There are also unresolved questions about the interpretation of the units for the rate of change of the angle.

Petrus
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You fly a kite. The dragon is 15m away from you (measured horizontally) and
moves right now straight up. The rope is rolled out with the speed of 4 dm / s, and 30m
is unwound. (a) Draw a clear picture of the situation, and explain what all introduced
designations stand for.
(b) What is the angle between the line and ground at this moment?
(c) How fast the angle changes? Also calculate the value to degrees per second
and consider whether it is reasonable.my progress:
(a)
332733t.png

(b)$$\cos^{-2}( \frac{15}{30})=60degree$$
(c) i need help with this part I know that dz/dt=0.4m/s

Regards,
$$|\pi\rangle$$
 
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Petrus said:
(c) i need help with this part I know that dz/dt=0.4m/s

Hey Petrus! :)

Perhaps you can draw a second picture that shows the situation some time $t$ later?

And then calculate the angle in this situation?

Btw, your assumption that $dz/dt=0.4 \text{ m/s}$ is incorrect.
The problem statement says that the line gets unwound at $0.4 \text{ m/s}$.
That is not the same as the height increasing at this rate.
 
I like Serena said:
Hey Petrus! :)

Perhaps you can draw a second picture that shows the situation some time $t$ later?

And then calculate the angle in this situation?

Btw, your assumption that $dz/dt=0.4 \text{ m/s}$ is incorrect.
The problem statement says that the line gets unwound at $0.4 \text{ m/s}$.
That is not the same as the height increasing at this rate.
do you mean like 2 second later the hypotenuse is 30.8m and the bottom 15.8m did i get it correct?

Regards,
$$|\pi\rangle$$
 
Petrus said:
do you mean like 2 second later the hypotenuse is 30.8m and the bottom 15.8m did i get it correct?

The hypotenuse would indeed become 30.8 m.
But according to your problem statement the kite rises straight up meaning the bottom would still be 15 m.

Btw, I would try to generalize it for an arbitrary time $t$.
If you have the angle as function of $t$ you can then differentiate it.
 
I like Serena said:
The hypotenuse would indeed become 30.8 m.
But according to your problem statement the kite rises straight up meaning the bottom would still be 15 m.

Btw, I would try to generalize it for an arbitrary time $t$.
If you have the angle as function of $t$ you can then differentiate it.
do you mean like this $$cos(x)=\frac{30+0.4t}{15}$$ so i got $$x=\cos^{-1}(\frac{30+0.4t}{15})$$

Regards,
$$|\pi\rangle$$
 
Petrus said:
do you mean like this $$cos(x)=\frac{30+0.4t}{15}$$ so i got $$x=\cos^{-1}(\frac{30+0.4t}{15})$$

Regards,
$$|\pi\rangle$$

Almost! ;)

It should be:
$$x=\cos^{-1}\left(\frac{15}{30+0.4t}\right)$$

Now you can take the derivative to find the rate of change of the angle.
 
I like Serena said:
Huh? :confused:
Which "after"?

Anyway, you can substitute $t=0$ to find the current rate of change of the angle.

See Wolfram|Alpha here.
yes i get that, but i have hard understanding what is the unit. I mean this is not degree is it m/s? or i am lost..
edit: if i get it correct then after 0 secund its that much in meter?
Regards,
$$|\pi\rangle$$
 
  • #10
Petrus said:
yes i get that, but i have hard understanding what is the unit. I mean this is not degree is it m/s? or i am lost..
edit: if i get it correct then after 0 secund its that much in meter?

We're talking about the rate of change of the angle.
By default W|A will use the unit $\text{rad/s}$.
 
  • #11
I like Serena said:
We're talking about the rate of change of the angle.
By default W|A will use the unit $\text{rad/s}$.
ok so we got 0.44106 degree/sec right?

Regards,
$$|\pi\rangle$$
 
  • #12
Petrus said:
ok so we got 0.44106 degree/sec right?

Yep! :D
 

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