What is the best method for plotting function parameter errors?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around methods for visually representing errors in function parameters, particularly in the context of plotting functions that depend on a parameter with uncertainty. Participants explore different approaches to illustrate these errors, considering both computational methods and visual representations.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests plotting the function for two values of a to compute the error as the difference between the two functions, questioning which method best conveys the error visually.
  • Another participant proposes using a shaded graph with multiple curves to portray the error visually, arguing that this method may better capture extreme values than just plotting two specific points.
  • Clarification is provided regarding the definition of "error," indicating that it relates to uncertainty in the parameter a, which can vary within a specified range.
  • Concerns are raised about whether the function consistently increases or decreases with changes in the parameter, as this could affect the interpretation of plotted values.
  • One participant introduces a specific application related to recombination in cosmology, referencing equations that involve uncertainties in parameters.
  • Another participant clarifies their function and the role of the parameter, expressing a desire to generalize the uncertainty in the parameter further.
  • A later reply discusses how plotting extreme values of the parameter can illustrate the extremes of variation in the function's output.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the best method for visualizing parameter errors, with no consensus reached on a single approach. The discussion includes various perspectives on how to define and represent error in the context of plotting functions.

Contextual Notes

Participants note the importance of understanding the behavior of the function with respect to the parameter, as well as the need for a clear definition of "error" in the context of statistical meaning. There are unresolved questions about the specific function being analyzed and the implications of varying the parameter.

ChrisVer
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Hi, suppose that you have some function: [itex]F(x;a)[/itex]
where [itex]x[/itex] is the variable with which you plot the function and [itex]a[/itex] is some parameter which enters the function.
If I want to find the error coming from some uncertainty in [itex]a[/itex], computationally, I would have to plot the function for 2 different let's say values of [itex]a[/itex]: Let's say that this means to plot the functions below:
[itex]F(x;a)[/itex]
[itex]F(x;2a)[/itex]
Then I believe the error then can can be computed by (their difference):

[itex]F(x;2a)-F(x;a)[/itex]

as well as (their fluctuation)

[itex]\frac{F(x;2a)-F(x;a)}{F(x;a)}[/itex]

Which of these two are best for a plotting? Is there some physical meaning behind any of these two? like they are showing something different to the reader?
 
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I think what you're after is to "portray" the "error" visually, not to compute it. For such a purpose, I'd pefer to see a shaded graph created by plotting lots of curves on top of each other The reason is that the points on the the graphs of [itex]F(x,a)[/itex] and [itex]F(x,2a)[/itex] might not show the most extreme values. For example, it's possible that that for some [itex]a < c < 2a[/itex] that [itex]F(x,c)[/itex] might be be greater than both [itex]F(x,a)[/itex] and [itex]F(x,2a)[/itex]. If you're sure that this kind of thing won't happen then then your idea of plotting only [itex]F(x,a)[/itex] and [itex]F(x,2a)[/itex] would be sufficient.

You haven't defined what you mean by "error". If the graph is to portray a specific statistical meaning, we'd have to know the probability model for the situation.
 
By error I mean something like this: in general you can't determine [itex]a[/itex] exactly, but within some range [itex](a_{min}, a_{max})[/itex]... This will cause an error to the function [itex]F(x;a)[/itex] coming from [itex]a[/itex]...
So I thought :
I could determine it by eg saying that I can determine [itex]a[/itex] within an order of magnitude (let's say [itex]10 \le a \le 100[/itex]), what should I do to see the error then? I would have to plot [itex]F(x;10)[/itex] and [itex]F(x;100)[/itex] and look at their differences...
 
ChrisVer said:
I would have to plot [itex]F(x;10)[/itex] and [itex]F(x;100)[/itex] and look at their differences...

That would be Ok if the graph of [itex]F(x,c)[/itex] always rises as [itex]c[/itex] increases or always falls as [itex]c[/itex] increases. But suppose as [itex]c[/itex] increases between 10 and 100, the point at [itex]F(5,c)[/itex] moves up and down. Then [itex]F(5,10)[/itex] and [itex]F(5,100)[/itex] might not indicate the extremes of the movement.

What specific [itex]F(x,a)[/itex] are you dealing with?
 
Recombination (cosmology) and the uncertainty in determining the recombination temperature [itex]T[/itex] in which [itex]X(T_{rec})= \frac{n_{ion}}{n_e}=1/2[/itex]
http://www.maths.qmul.ac.uk/~jel/ASTM108lecture8.pdf
(Eq. 8.23 with uncertainty in [itex]\eta =\frac{n_B}{n_\gamma}= 4 - 8 \times 10^{-10}[/itex] )
 
Last edited by a moderator:
ChrisVer said:
(Eq. 8.23 with uncertainty in [itex]\eta =\frac{n_B}{n_\gamma}= 4 - 8 \times 10^{-10}[/itex] )

[itex]\frac{ n_{ion}}{n_e} = \frac{n_\gamma}{n_B} \ exp( \frac { E_{ion}} {k_B T} ) \ \[/itex] (Eq.8.23)

[itex]T = \frac{E_{ion}}{k_B} \frac{1}{ \ln({\frac{n_{ion}}{n_e})} \ - \ \ln({ \frac{n_\gamma}{n_B} )} }[/itex]

[itex]T = \frac{E_{ion}}{k_B} \frac{1}{ \ln({\frac{n_{ion}}{n_e})} \ - \ \ln({ \frac{1}{\eta} )} }[/itex]

So you are plotting this as [itex]y = T = f(x,a)[/itex] with [itex]a = \eta[/itex]. But what variable plays the role of [itex]x[/itex] ?
 
ehmm.. no, I am plotting [itex]X \equiv X(T ;\eta)= \frac{1}{\eta} \exp \Big ( \frac{E_{ion}}{k_BT} \Big)[/itex] for [itex]3000<T(Kelvin)<4500[/itex]
And [itex]\eta= 4 \times 10^{-10}[/itex] and [itex]\eta= 8 \times 10^{-10}[/itex]
However I'd [personally] like to generalize this to an uncertainty of [itex]\eta[/itex] within an order of magnitude...
 
Then for a given value of [itex]T[/itex] , the point on the graph, as a function of [itex]\eta[/itex] has the form [itex]y = s \frac{1}{\eta}[/itex] where [itex]s[/itex] is a constant. So I plotting points given by the extreme values of [itex]\eta[/itex] will show the extremes of variation in [itex]y[/itex].
 

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