What is the correct pH in a reaction between hydrogen sulfate ion and ammonia?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around determining the correct pH in a reaction between hydrogen sulfate ion and ammonia, with a focus on the theoretical and practical aspects of acid-base equilibria. Participants explore various equations and assumptions related to the pH calculation in this context.

Discussion Character

  • Homework-related
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant asserts that the reaction of hydrogen sulfate ion with ammonia goes to completion, suggesting that the pH controlling species is hydrogen sulfate ion due to its higher Ka compared to ammonium or ammonia.
  • Another participant provides pH values for related solutions, indicating that a pH of 2.40 falls between the pH of 1M NH4HSO4 and (NH4)2SO4 solutions, which raises questions about the accuracy of the initial claim.
  • A different viewpoint suggests that the ammonia is largely protonated, likening the situation to a simpler case involving sodium ions, implying that the complexity of the reaction may be reduced.
  • One participant recognizes a mistake in their earlier reasoning, noting that the system behaves as a buffer solution and suggesting the use of the Henderson-Hasselbalch equation to estimate pH, while also considering the ratio of sulfate to hydrogen sulfate ions.
  • Another participant cautions against using the Henderson-Hasselbalch equation, arguing that hydrogen sulfate ion is too strong for that approach and that the assumption of complete neutralization may not be valid.
  • There is a suggestion to reframe the problem in terms of how much NaOH would need to be added to a sodium hydrogen sulfate solution to achieve a specific pH, indicating a different approach to the calculation.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the pH calculation and the appropriateness of various methods, indicating that multiple competing perspectives remain without a clear consensus on the correct approach.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight potential limitations in their assumptions, such as the treatment of the reaction as going to completion and the applicability of the Henderson-Hasselbalch equation in this context. The discussion reflects uncertainty regarding the equilibrium concentrations and the behavior of the species involved.

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Homework Statement



http://i.minus.com/jfUXIXvQJw8hw.png

Homework Equations



Ka of hydrogen sulfate ion will be taken as 1.2x10-2.

Ka of ammonium ion will be taken as 5.6x10-10

Kb of ammonia will be taken as 1.8x10-5

Kb of sulfate ion will be taken as something very tiny (Kw/Ka of hydrogen sulfate ion).

These values are consistent throughout the literature.

The Attempt at a Solution



The reaction of hydrogen sulfate ion and bubbled in ammonia is a large extent reaction. We'll take it as going to completion. Also the pH controlling species here is obviously hydrogen sulfate ion since the magnitude of its Ka is far beyond that of ammonium or ammonia.

The problem is that with 0.25 moles of hydrogen sulfate ion left in the system there is NO way there can be a pH of 2.40. A pH of 1.3, yes. It seems that my teacher may have used the natural log instead of the base ten log because taking the natural log of the hydronium ion concentration yields a 2.90 (which may look like 2.40). The pH can easily be ascertained through a simple x^2/Mi = Ka calculation.

So am I wrong or is my teacher wrong?
 
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pH of the 1M NH4HSO4 solution is around 1.0, pH of the 1M (NH4)2SO4 solution is around 5.47, 2.40 is definitely between these two values.
 
It's a salt of a strong acid and weak base essentially. You have already hit on an essential simplifying fact - the ammonia is essentially all protonated in the problem. So it is no different than if you replaced NH4+ everywhere by Na+, a fairly ordinary problem.
 
No, that's not quite right either; I know what I did wrong. I forgot to realize this was a buffer solution. We have an ammonia/ammonium buffer and a hydrogen sulfate ion/sulfate ion buffer. We use the Henderson-Hasselbach equation then to estimate pH. I should also have realized that with the sheer amount of sulfate ion in the system relative to hydrogen sulfate ion (ratio of 3:1 or 0.75 moles to 0.25 moles) should, by Le Chatlier's principle, reduce the production of hydronium ion (relative to if there were only hydrogen sulfate ion in the system, as I had erroneously supposed).
 
To some extent it is a buffer solution, but using HH equation is quite dangerous. HSO4- is too strong for that. HH equation requires use of the equilibrium concentrations, you can't be sure typical assumption about the neutralization ("went to completion") is justified.

I agree with epenguin, ammonia dissociation can be safely ignored.

IOW equivalent question is "How much NaOH has to be added to 1M NaHSO4 to produce pH 2.4 solution". I would try to approach it with some variant of the ICE table.
 
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