What is the domain of y = log [(4-t)^(2/3)] ?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around determining the domain of the function y = log [(4-t)^(2/3)] for real values of t. Participants explore the implications of logarithmic properties and the effects of rewriting the function in different forms.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants assert that the domain of log(x) requires x > 0, leading to the interpretation that (4-t)^(2/3) must also be greater than zero.
  • One participant concludes that the domain is all real numbers except t = 4, as (4-t)^2 is positive for all t except when t = 4.
  • Another participant suggests that the function can be rewritten as y = (2/3)log(4-t), which would imply a domain of t < 4.
  • There is a correction regarding the notation, clarifying that the correct expression is y = (2/3)log(4-t) rather than y = log[(2/3)(4-t)].
  • Some participants express confusion over the necessity of rewriting logarithmic functions to determine their domains, questioning the implications of fractional exponents.
  • One participant references WolframAlpha's output, which indicates that the domain is t < 4, while another notes that a different formulation yields all reals except 4.
  • There is a discussion about how WolframAlpha handles fractional exponents and logarithmic functions, suggesting that this may contribute to the differing interpretations of the domain.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the domain of the function. Multiple competing views remain, particularly regarding the interpretation of the logarithmic function and the implications of rewriting it.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight that the function is not defined for t ≥ 4, but there is uncertainty about the implications of fractional exponents and the properties of logarithms in determining the domain.

zacc
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Hello to all:

I was trying to solve the following question: what is the domain of the function y = log [(4-t)^(2/3)] for Real t. Here is my reasoning:

The domain of the log(x) is x>0.

I would have interpreted this question in terms of the log of the cubic root of (4-t)^2. Thus, I was thinking of the domain as the solution to the following inequality:

(4-t)^(2/3) > 0

The cubic root has the sign of the radicand and (4-t)^2 is positive for all t. The only restriction would be when 4-t=0 and this happens for t=4. Thus, my answer to the question is: the domain is ALL reals minus 4.

Apparently this is not the case as the answer to the problem is t<4. Now, I am suspecting this is because they are rewriting the function as: y=log[(2/3)*(4-t)] for which indeed the answer would be t<4.

So, I am really confused as to what is going on here. Do I always need to rewrite logarithmic functions to find their domains? Why? Please, help!

Thanks guys!
 
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Hi zacc...

zacc said:
Hello to all:

I was trying to solve the following question: what is the domain of the function y = log [(4-t)^(2/3)] for Real t. Here is my reasoning:

The domain of the log(x) is x>0.

I would have interpreted this question in terms of the log of the cubic root of (4-t)^2. Thus, I was thinking of the domain as the solution to the following inequality:

(4-t)^(2/3) > 0

The cubic root has the sign of the radicand and (4-t)^2 is positive for all t. The only restriction would be when 4-t=0 and this happens for t=4. Thus, my answer to the question is: the domain is ALL reals minus 4.

Apparently this is not the case as the answer to the problem is t<4. Now, I am suspecting this is because they are rewriting the function as: y=log[(2/3)*(4-t)] for which indeed the answer would be t<4.

So, I am really confused as to what is going on here. Do I always need to rewrite logarithmic functions to find their domains? Why? Please, help!

Thanks guys!

The item in red should be y=(2/3)log(4-t)

Its not about rewriting the logarithmic functions.Rather it is about fulfilling the properties of the function.

We know that logban = nlogba .

Now,the domain of the given function needs to satisfy all the properties of logarithms .If you take domain to be R-{0} ,then clearly, the function is not defined for all the points of domain.More specifically ,the function is not defined for t≥4 .Hence,R-{0} cannot be the domain of the given function.

Whereas for t<4 ,the function is defined everywhere in the domain.
 
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zacc said:
Hello to all:

I was trying to solve the following question: what is the domain of the function y = log [(4-t)^(2/3)] for Real t. Here is my reasoning:

The domain of the log(x) is x>0.

I would have interpreted this question in terms of the log of the cubic root of (4-t)^2. Thus, I was thinking of the domain as the solution to the following inequality:

(4-t)^(2/3) > 0

The cubic root has the sign of the radicand and (4-t)^2 is positive for all t. The only restriction would be when 4-t=0 and this happens for t=4. Thus, my answer to the question is: the domain is ALL reals minus 4.

Apparently this is not the case as the answer to the problem is t<4. Now, I am suspecting this is because they are rewriting the function as: y=log[(2/3)*(4-t)] for which indeed the answer would be t<4.
No, it would be y = (2/3)log(4 - t), which is different from what you wrote, and has a domain of t < 4. Otherwise, your other work seems reasonable. If t = 4, (2/3)log[4 - t] and log[(4 - t)2/3] are undefined, but if t > 4, log[(4 - t)2/3] is defined, while (2/3)log(4 - t) is not.

Have you given us the complete problem? What's your reference that says that the domain is only t < 4?
zacc said:
So, I am really confused as to what is going on here. Do I always need to rewrite logarithmic functions to find their domains? Why? Please, help!

Thanks guys!
 
Tanya and Mark: Indeed I made a mistake and I should have written y=(2/3)*log(t-4). That was my intention. Sorry about that but it was quite late at night when I was writing. Thanks for the correction.

Tanya Sharma said:
Hi zacc...



The item in red should be y=(2/3)log(4-t)

Its not about rewriting the logarithmic functions.Rather it is about fulfilling the properties of the function.

We know that logban = nlogba .

Now,the domain of the given function needs to satisfy all the properties of logarithms .If you take domain to be R-{0} ,then clearly, the function is not defined for all the points of domain.More specifically ,the function is not defined for t≥4 .Hence,R-{0} cannot be the domain of the given function.

Whereas for t<4 ,the function is defined everywhere in the domain.

Hi Tanya: Thanks for the reply. I still don't see why my original reasoning is flawed. That is, (t-4)2 is positive over all reals and so is its cubic root and thus its log should be defined But, please see below.

Mark44 said:
No, it would be y = (2/3)log(4 - t), which is different from what you wrote, and has a domain of t < 4. Otherwise, your other work seems reasonable. If t = 4, (2/3)log[4 - t] and log[(4 - t)2/3] are undefined, but if t > 4, log[(4 - t)2/3] is defined, while (2/3)log(4 - t) is not.

Have you given us the complete problem? What's your reference that says that the domain is only t < 4?

Mark: My only reference was asking the question to Wolframalpha: "what is the domain of the function y=log[(4-t)^(2/3)]" which returns t<4 as the answer. Requesting a plot of the function returns only the branch for t<4.

Tanya and Mark:

Now, I just realized that if I had asked Wolframalpha the question: what is the domain of the function y=log((t-4)^2) the answer in this case is all reals except 4. So, evidently the problem has to do with the way Wolframalpha handles the roots and maybe there is something that I am missing. If any of you have any insight it would be greatly appreciated. Thanks again.
 
The answer you got is a result of how WA handles fractional exponents. I think this is what WA is doing:
$$(4 - t)^{2/3} = e^{ln(4 - t)^{2/3}} = e^{2/3 * ln(4 - t)}$$
 
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