What is the Limit of the Poisson Kernel Prove for $r\to 1$?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the limit of the Poisson kernel as \( r \) approaches 1, specifically examining the behavior of \( P(r, \theta) \) for different values of \( \theta \). Participants explore the mathematical formulation and definitions of the Poisson kernel, as well as the implications of these definitions on the limit being discussed.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation, Debate/contested, Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant proposes that the limit of the Poisson kernel is infinite at \( \theta = 0 \) and zero otherwise, providing a summation argument to support this claim.
  • Another participant requests the definition of the Poisson kernel, indicating a need for clarity on the topic.
  • Several participants provide different definitions of the Poisson kernel, highlighting variations in notation and formulation, including a fractional representation and a series representation.
  • One participant suggests checking the definition again, asserting that a different formulation is correct and providing a detailed derivation of the Poisson kernel.
  • There is acknowledgment of a typo in one of the definitions, with a participant pointing out a missing term in a summation.
  • Another participant confirms the correctness of the limit conclusion presented in earlier posts.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing definitions of the Poisson kernel, indicating a lack of consensus on the correct formulation. While some agree on the limit behavior as \( r \to 1 \), the discussion remains unresolved regarding the definitions and their implications.

Contextual Notes

There are multiple definitions of the Poisson kernel presented, which may lead to confusion regarding their applicability. Some definitions include additional terms or factors that others omit, and the implications of these differences on the limit behavior are not fully resolved.

Dustinsfl
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Prove:
$$
\lim_{r\to 1}P(r,\theta) = \begin{cases}
\infty, & \theta = 0\\
0, & \text{otherwise}
\end{cases}
$$
For the first piece, take the summation
$$
P(1,0) = \frac{1}{\pi}\left(\frac{1}{2} + \sum_{n = 1}^{\infty} 1^n\right).
$$
Then $\sum\limits_{n = 1}^{\infty} 1^n = \infty$.
Therefore, we have a positive number plus infinity which is infinity when $r\to 1$ and $\theta = 0$.
For the second piece, take the fractional representation of the Poisson kernel,
$$
P(1,\theta) = \frac{1}{2\pi}\frac{0}{2 - 2\cos\theta} = 0.
$$
Therefore, $P(r,\theta) = 0$ for all $\theta\neq 0$.
That is,
$$\lim_{r\to 1}P(r,\theta) = \begin{cases}
\infty, & \theta = 0\\
0, & \text{otherwise}
\end{cases}
$$
 
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Could you write the definition of Poisson kernel?
 
girdav said:
Could you write the definition of Poisson kernel?

$$
P(r,\theta) = \frac{1}{\pi}\left(\frac{1}{2} + \sum_{n = 1}^{\infty} r^n\cos\theta\right) = \frac{1}{2\pi}\frac{1 - r^2}{1 - 2r\cos\theta + r^2}
$$
 
dwsmith said:
$$
P(r,\theta) = \frac{1}{\pi}\left(\frac{1}{2} + \sum_{n = 1}^{\infty} r^n\cos\theta\right) = \frac{1}{2\pi}\frac{1 - r^2}{1 - 2r\cos\theta + r^2}
$$

Can you please tell me where you found this definition?
 
Sudharaka said:
Can you please tell me where you found this definition?

A class on Fourier series

A class on Engineering Analysis

The book Elementary Partial Differential Equations by Berg and McGregor

My Engineering Analysis book that I can't remember the name.

Separate handout notes by my Fourier Analysis professor.
 
dwsmith said:
A class on Fourier series

A class on Engineering Analysis

The book Elementary Partial Differential Equations by Berg and McGregor

My Engineering Analysis book that I can't remember the name.

Separate handout notes by my Fourier Analysis professor.

I suggest you to check the definition again. The correct one is given >>here<<.

\begin{eqnarray}

P_r(\theta)&=&\sum_{n=-\infty}^\infty r^{|n|}e^{in\theta}=\frac{1-r^2}{1-2r\cos\theta +r^2}\mbox{ where }0 \le r < 1.\\

&=&\sum_{n=-\infty}^\infty r^{|n|}\cos(n\theta)+i\sum_{n=-\infty}^\infty r^{|n|}\sin(n\theta)\\

\end{eqnarray}

Since, \(r^{|n|}\sin(n\theta)\) is an odd function it is clear that the second sum is equal to zero.

\begin{eqnarray}

\therefore P_r(\theta)&=&\sum_{n=-\infty}^\infty r^{|n|}\cos(n\theta)\\

&=&1+2\sum_{n=1}^\infty r^{n}\cos(n\theta)\\

\end{eqnarray}

Hence we finally get,

\[P_r(\theta)=1+2\sum_{n=1}^\infty r^{n}\cos(n\theta)= \frac{1-r^2}{1-2r\cos\theta +r^2}\mbox{ where }0 \le r < 1.\]
 
Sudharaka said:
I suggest you to check the definition again. The correct one is given >>here<<.

\begin{eqnarray}

P_r(\theta)&=&\sum_{n=-\infty}^\infty r^{|n|}e^{in\theta}=\frac{1-r^2}{1-2r\cos\theta +r^2}\mbox{ where }0 \le r < 1.\\

&=&\sum_{n=-\infty}^\infty r^{|n|}\cos(n\theta)+i\sum_{n=-\infty}^\infty r^{|n|}\sin(n\theta)\\

\end{eqnarray}

Since, \(r^{|n|}\sin(n\theta)\) is an odd function it is clear that the second sum is equal to zero.

\begin{eqnarray}

\therefore P_r(\theta)&=&\sum_{n=-\infty}^\infty r^{|n|}\cos(n\theta)\\

&=&1+2\sum_{n=1}^\infty r^{n}\cos(n\theta)\\

\end{eqnarray}

Hence we finally get,

\[P_r(\theta)=1+2\sum_{n=1}^\infty r^{n}\cos(n\theta)= \frac{1-r^2}{1-2r\cos\theta +r^2}\mbox{ where }0 \le r < 1.\]

The books are already opened to the pages. I see it clearly.
 
dwsmith said:
Photo of Poisson Kernel

https://www.physicsforums.com/attachments/396

Poisson Kernel -- from Wolfram MathWorld

Yes it seems that there is a slight difference in the definition of the Poisson Kernel. In some books it's defined as,

\[P(r,\theta)=\frac{1-r^2}{1-2r\cos\theta +r^2}\]

whereas in others,

\[P(r,\theta)=\frac{1}{2\pi}\frac{1-r^2}{1-2r\cos\theta +r^2}\]

You seem to be using this second definition. However notice that you are missing a \(n\) in the summation of post #3.

\[P(r,\theta) = \frac{1}{\pi}\left(\frac{1}{2} + \sum_{n = 1}^{\infty} r^n\cos({\color{red}n}\theta)\right) = \frac{1}{2\pi}\frac{1 - r^2}{1 - 2r\cos\theta + r^2}\]
 
  • #10
Sudharaka said:
\[P(r,\theta) = \frac{1}{\pi}\left(\frac{1}{2} + \sum_{n = 1}^{\infty} r^n\cos({\color{red}n}\theta)\right) = \frac{1}{2\pi}\frac{1 - r^2}{1 - 2r\cos\theta + r^2}\]
Typo.
Is my soln correct?
 
  • #11
dwsmith said:
Prove:
$$
\lim_{r\to 1}P(r,\theta) = \begin{cases}
\infty, & \theta = 0\\
0, & \text{otherwise}
\end{cases}
$$
For the first piece, take the summation
$$
P(1,0) = \frac{1}{\pi}\left(\frac{1}{2} + \sum_{n = 1}^{\infty} 1^n\right).
$$
Then $\sum\limits_{n = 1}^{\infty} 1^n = \infty$.
Therefore, we have a positive number plus infinity which is infinity when $r\to 1$ and $\theta = 0$.
For the second piece, take the fractional representation of the Poisson kernel,
$$
P(1,\theta) = \frac{1}{2\pi}\frac{0}{2 - 2\cos\theta} = 0.
$$
Therefore, $P({\color{red}1},\theta) = 0$ for all $\theta\neq 0$.
That is,
$$\lim_{r\to 1}P(r,\theta) = \begin{cases}
\infty, & \theta = 0\\
0, & \text{otherwise}
\end{cases}
$$

Yeah it's correct. (Yes)
 

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