What Is the pH of a Strong Triprotic Acid Before Titration?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around determining the pH of a strong triprotic acid before titration, specifically in the context of a homework problem involving a 1.5 M solution of the acid and its titration with NaOH. Participants explore the implications of the acid being strong and triprotic, as well as the calculations involved in finding the pH.

Discussion Character

  • Homework-related
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question what it means for an acid to be "strong," with one suggesting it dissociates completely in solution.
  • Participants discuss the number of moles of the acid present, with one stating there are 0.036 moles.
  • There is uncertainty regarding the number of protons produced upon dissociation, with conflicting calculations of 0.012 and 0.108 moles of protons being proposed.
  • One participant attempts to clarify the concept of triprotic acids, indicating that they contain three hydrogen ions.
  • Participants engage in a mathematical analogy to illustrate the calculation of total protons from the moles of acid.
  • There is confusion regarding the calculation of pH, with one participant suggesting a concentration of 1.38, which is later challenged as being too high.
  • Concerns are raised about the implications of obtaining a negative pH, with one participant asserting that negative pH values are not possible.
  • A link is shared to a resource discussing negative pH, indicating some participants are exploring this concept further.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the calculation of pH and the implications of negative pH values. There is no consensus on the correct approach to determining the pH of the strong triprotic acid before titration.

Contextual Notes

Participants' calculations depend on their understanding of the definitions of strong acids and triprotic acids, as well as the mathematical steps involved in determining pH. There are unresolved questions regarding the correct concentration and the interpretation of negative pH values.

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Homework Statement


24 ml of 1.5 M solution of unknown acid is titrated with 54 ml 2 M NaOH. The unknown acid is triprotic. If the unknown acid is strong, what is the pH of this acid before titration


Homework Equations



Mvn= Mvn to find that it was tri-protic.

The Attempt at a Solution


literally no idea where to begin
 
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What does it mean for an acid to be "strong"?
 
that it dissociates completely in solution
 
OK, how many moles of acid do you have?
 
.036 moles
 
And so how many moles of protons, when it dissociates?
 
i don't know... do you?
 
What does triprotic mean?
 
that the formula is H3___ (3 being a subscript) so its got 3 hydrogen
 
  • #10
OK, so if there are 0.036 moles of acid, how many hydrogens?
 
  • #11
.012 or .108??
 
  • #12
If a cake needs 3 eggs, and I have 4 cakes, how many eggs do I need?
 
  • #13
12? so .012?
 
  • #14
How did you get 12 to my question?

Consider that you have 0.036 cakes, each containing 3 eggs...
 
  • #15
so .108 i did .012 because i thought you were saying 12 egga for 4 cakes
 
  • #16
ah, sorry, probably a bad choice of numbers on my part then :)

OK, 0.108 moles of protons. Can you define pH in terms of concentration?
 
  • #17
ya - [log concentration]
 
  • #18
And what is the concentration? (given that you know number of moles and volume)
 
  • #19
1.38, but that's too high the negative log of that is negative itself
 
  • #20
How have you got 1.38? Also, negative pH is not a problem either.
 
Last edited:
  • #21
borek said moles over volume. Therefore with .108 moles over the volume of .024L i was wrong with 1.38 because i added the volume of the NaOH as well but this number is still to high too.
 
  • #22
Why do you think it's too high?
 
  • #23
cause you get a negative pH
 
  • #24
And that's a problem because?
 
  • #25
there is no such thing as a negative pH...
 
  • #27
i have the sme question! nice post
 

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