What is the pH of a Weak Acid/Base Mixture?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on calculating the pH of a mixture of a weak acid (acetic acid) and a weak base (cyanide ion) in a homework context. Participants explore the equilibrium behavior of the solutions and the implications of their concentrations and dissociation constants.

Discussion Character

  • Homework-related
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents a homework problem involving the mixing of acetic acid and cyanide ion, noting the concentrations and volumes of each solution.
  • There is a suggestion that the K values may not be useful due to the absence of water in the reaction, although another participant points out that water is present.
  • Some participants express uncertainty about whether the reaction can be assumed to go to completion, given that both the acid and base are weak.
  • One participant argues that the presence of a large excess of one reagent could shift the equilibrium towards the products, potentially allowing for an assumption of completion.
  • Another participant references a similar scenario involving acetic acid and ammonia, suggesting that neutralization can approach completion under certain conditions, but emphasizes that the current situation is different.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on whether the reaction can be assumed to go to completion. There are competing views on the implications of the concentrations and the behavior of weak acids and bases in this context.

Contextual Notes

Participants note limitations in the textbook's explanation regarding the behavior of weak acid and weak base mixtures, and there is an acknowledgment of the complexity involved in calculating pH for such systems.

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Homework Statement



We have two solutions: One solution that has [tex]0.300[/tex] L of [tex]0.100[/tex] M acetic acid, and the other with [tex]0.100[/tex] L of [tex]0.200[/tex] M [tex]CN^-[/tex].

We mix the two solutions. At equilibrium, what is the pH of the resulting solution?

Homework Equations


For acetic acid, [tex]K_a=1.8*10^{-5}[/tex]
For [tex]CN^-[/tex], [tex]K_b=2.5*10^{-5}[/tex]

The Attempt at a Solution



[tex]CH_3COOH + CN^- <=> CH_3COO- + HCN[/tex]...
The K values aren't useful here since there's no water in the reaction.
We can't assume the reaction goes to completion, in either direction since the acids and bases are weak. Not sure if solution is basic even though the [tex]K_b[/tex] for cyanide anion is greater than the [tex]K_a[/tex] of acetic acid since we have more acetic acid than base.

...
My textbook seems to dodge this issue in its explanation of "the reaction of a weak acid with a weak base." The textbook considers an equilmolar mixture of acetic acid and ammonia and says that the solution in that case would be neutral because the Ka of acetic acid the Kb of NH3 are the same.

Whoa why is the tex so thin?..
 
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cncbmb said:
The K values aren't useful here since there's no water in the reaction.

Plenty of water around.

We can't assume the reaction goes to completion, in either direction since the acids and bases are weak.

There is an excess of one reagent... Try to assume that reaction goes to completion (find limiting reagent).
 
Why can we assume that the reaction goes to completion?
 
In general - we can't. But you have huge excess of one of the reagents, that shifts equilibrium to the products side.

Note that when you mix acetic acid with stoichiometric amount of ammonia, neutralization goes ALMOST to completion with both acid and base neutralized in over 99%. We are just so close to the neutral solution, that tiny equilibrium shift can give a large effect in terms of pH change. However, here we are very far from this kind of situation.

Some reading:
general case of pH calculation
pH of salts
 

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