What is the reason for the Emergence of properties?

  • #26
I don't see how that fits with your definition. Turbulent flow and laminar flow of the same fluid should have the same numbers and types of fundamental particles. So per your definition it would not be emergent, in contrast to the standard usage.
I am a nobody to coin any kind of definition....
It's just my curiosity that may be getting annoying for people here.

I think emergence does not /should not mean the same numbers and same types of fundamental particles...

It means /should mean the occurrence /creation of something/some property that was not previously there. For example the occurrence /creation/change /destruction etc. of particles from the quantum field when an observation is made.

The main thing here is that firstly a process/property was completely absent and then there it was. This is emergence to my simple mind (simplicity/complexity/variety /sameness etc. of the process is not an issue here) .

Again, this is not vanity but plain curiosity.
 
  • #27
jbriggs444
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The main thing here is that firstly a process/property was completely absent and then there it was. This is emergence to my simple mind (simplicity/complexity/variety /sameness etc. of the process is not an issue here) .
But that's not the standard definition. One cannot determine the definition of a phrase by thinking about what the words normally mean separately and then guessing at a meaning that they have when put together. The phrase "emergent property" has a standard definition that does not involve something coming into existence over time.
 
  • #28
But that's not the standard definition. One cannot determine the definition of a phrase by thinking about what the words normally mean separately and then guessing at a meaning that they have when put together. The phrase "emergent property" has a standard definition that does not involve something coming into existence over time.
Pressure of a gas is an emergent property. The notion of pressure is not attached to a single molecule/atom.

Suppose, I keep on adding a molecule one by one in a jar. So, pressure (an emergent property) comes into existence over time.
 
  • #29
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Suppose, I keep on adding a molecule one by one in a jar. So, pressure (an emergent property) comes into existence over time.
The time you insisted on adding was not a part of the definition and is, in fact, irrelevant to it.
 
  • #30
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I think emergence does not /should not mean the same numbers and same types of fundamental particles...
That is how YOU defined it above! I strongly recommend that you use established definitions.

At this point I need to insist that you not proceed further with personal speculation. You need to learn existing definitions of terms that are defined so as to be consistent with the ideas that are intended to be communicated.

Please PM me with a suitable reference
 
  • #31
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I know that you are talking about just 3 atoms forming a molecule here, but maybe this is a good jumping point for you to discover another new aspect of our world that Phil Anderson touted many years ago: More Is Different.
I had put this aside to read & finally had a chance to do so. Much of it is over my head (I don't have the background necessary), but those parts of it I do understand seem well-argued and appealing. I had not heard of broken symmetry before. I also like Anderson's demonstrations that reductionism being true in one direction doesn't mean it's true in the other - i.e. that with a knowledge of fundamental laws and behaviors alone, we could derive all more complex systems.
 

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