What is the role of gas density in determining friction in space?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the role of gas density in determining friction in space, exploring whether friction can occur in a vacuum and the implications of low gas densities in various cosmic environments. Participants examine theoretical and practical aspects of friction in space, including conditions around black holes and the general characteristics of the universe's density.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants assert that friction cannot occur in a vacuum, as friction requires the presence of gas.
  • Others acknowledge that while space is predominantly a vacuum, there is gas and dust present, albeit at extremely low densities, which may lead to negligible friction effects.
  • One participant describes the conditions around black holes, where gas and dust create significant friction due to high particle density in accretion disks, leading to chaotic and energetic environments.
  • Another participant references the formula for air drag, noting that the low density of gas in space results in negligible air drag compared to conditions on Earth.
  • Some participants discuss the possibility of maintaining drag and lift by increasing speed in low-density environments, but express uncertainty about the calculations at extremely low densities found in space.
  • There is a mention of the intergalactic medium's density being significantly lower than atmospheric conditions, suggesting that appreciable drag would require velocities close to the speed of light.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree that space is not entirely devoid of gas, but there is no consensus on the implications of this for friction. Multiple competing views exist regarding the significance of gas density and the conditions under which friction may occur in space.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty about the exact densities of gas in different regions of space and the calculations related to drag at relativistic speeds. There are unresolved assumptions regarding the effects of extremely low gas densities on friction.

avito009
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As you know there is vacuum in space. So when there is a vacuum there can't be friction. For friction to happen gas should be there in the space. Is there gas in space and is that the reason why there is friction or not in space?
 
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avito009 said:
As you know there is vacuum in space. So when there is a vacuum there can't be friction. For friction to happen gas should be there in the space. Is there gas in space and is that the reason why there is friction or not in space?
There's gas and dust, but the density is extremely low and as such the friction effects are usually negligible.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosmic_dust
 
There is definitely gas and dust in space, but the densities are incredibly low. Around black holes, gas and dust falling into it are pulled into orbit, forming an acretion disk. The acretion disk has a whole lot of friction due to the fact that so many particles are rubbing against each other as they swirl around the black hole at colossally high speeds. Temperatures, electric fields, and magnetic fields in these kinds of environments get vey chaotic and hot. So hot in fact, that the disk surrounding the black hole begins to glow with energetic X-ray light.
In other cases, like the average density of the whole universe, that comes into a factor of about five hydrogen atoms per cubic meter, or approximately 9.47 x 10(-27) kilograms/ m^3
To get an even better idea, imagine a cubic yard of empty space, then put only 5 protons in that cubic yard. That is the critical density of our universe.
 
Well... Air Drag is given by ##(0.5).C.d.v^2##
Where d I density...since density of gas in space I very low, air drag is negligible.
 
avito009 said:
As you know there is vacuum in space. So when there is a vacuum there can't be friction. For friction to happen gas should be there in the space. Is there gas in space and is that the reason why there is friction or not in space?

Even at very low densities, air friction -drag- does exists. For example, if at ground level, with an air density of 1280 kg/m3, a moving object has a drag of 100 Newtons at a velocity of 10 m/s
AdityaDev said:
Well... Air Drag is given by ##(0.5).C.d.v^2##
Where d I density...since density of gas in space I very low, air drag is negligible.
But with a diminishing density, drag may be kept constant by rising the speed. If we fly so high that the density is 1/10000 of that at sea level, we can keep the drag (and the lift) constant if we compensate by rising the speed by a factor of 100...
 
NTW said:
But with a diminishing density, drag may be kept constant by rising the speed. If we fly so high that the density is 1/10000 of that at sea level, we can keep the drag (and the lift) constant if we compensate by rising the speed by a factor of 100...

This is true, but space is way way emptier than 1/10000 the atmosphere at sea level. The actual density of particles in space is something like 1 particle per cubic meter or something like that...IIRC (but I think this is for the intergalactic medium, the ISM might be a little bit denser). So something like 26 or more orders of magnitude thinner than the air we breathe. So, to get some appreciable drag, you have to be traveling quite close to the speed of light I think...and at those velocities, I'm not sure how to calculate the drag correctly.
 

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