Hi again JamesP, SpectraCat et al., "once more unto the breach dear friend,..." and maybe a few more times after this.
Replying to JP's point:
"Heat is energy intransit, so I am not clear on your point of separating types of energy."
My point is that energy clearly exists in different forms, kinetic and potential and work, and then as an eigenvalue of an operator in QM formalisms, etc., etc.. None of these forms of energy suffices in itself as a definition or explanation of "what energy is". So, my point is that to seek an explanation for "what energy is" in any particular form, such as the Work theorem (which is just a definition of Work in terms of other observables, and hence is a relational concept, it is not a definition of energy) is futile. You'll never pin down energy that way. To be fair, I haven't defined or attempted to definitively answer the original question posted by JJBladester. All I've attempted is an argument for why a rational physicist might realize or accept that our current concept of energy is a pure abstraction, an abstraction nonetheless that has immediate and motive physical consequences---it provides a framework for doing physics, viz. the Hamiltonian formalism of classical mechanics and the operator formalism of QM. And an abstraction nonetheless that can be crisply and unambiguously defined in various forms, unified, I think, by the notion of time translation invariance in CM and time evolution in QM.
If you look at his JJ's post, he provides a few examples of types of energy. So I rest my case on this point---that there are multiple forms of energy, none of which can or should be taken as a universal definition, though each is fine and clear as a definition of one form of energy in the given context & scope intended (which isn't always spelt out, which may add to some of the confusion about this topic).
Even the "energy as a measure of the capacity of a system to do work" definition is incomplete. As you picked up on JP, there is also "free energy". And a system with zero free energy does not have a capacity to do net work! So once again, we see an attempt to wrap things up with an all-encompassing definition of energy based upon one form or use of the concept of energy which fails.
Note, free energy = 'the energy in a physical system that can be converted to do work'.
So when a system has zero free energy, such as a gas that has reached thermal equilibrium, or a dead battery, then there is no capacity to convert energy to work, and yet the system (pick one) is clearly not at absolute zero temperature, so it still has heat energy. But talk to the experts on thermodynamics for further elaboration, since thermodynamics is not my particular specialty.
Next, JP wrote:
"I am not so interested in the debate about whether the word work or the word energy is more textbook appropriate for a given circumstance as I am interested in the cause of changes of either. That cause must exist but no one knows what cause is. Until cause can be explained, we are only speaking about effects. If energy is only another word for specific effects, then, I find the position that effects can be convertible into matter to be incomplete. Perhaps this point is viewed here as a separate subject."
This is an interesting turn in the discussion, well worth exploring.
I may be out of my depth now, but I would suspect that physics does not seek to inquire into ultimate causes, even though naive physicists and even professionals slip into imagining they are delving into causation from time to time---I think that's a conceit and a delusion, but that's just MHO. "We" (the collective Borg ;-) gave this enterprise (seeking ultimate causes) up once "we" accepted the least iota of quantum indeterminism. Modern physics seeks only to inquire into fundamental laws, and seeks to uncover the most parsimonious laws needed to describe physical phenomena. How can we ever hope to deduce ultimate causes? I for one don't see how it is possible, but maybe I'm philosophically too unsophisticated to see something obvious here?
In other words, IMHO, although I think your (JP's) desire to want to know the causes of the changes in state of a system that require energy principles to explain them, is admirable and worthy,
I do not think it is a physics problem. Feel free to argue otherwise, I'd be interested...
The physics problem is to find mathematical laws that predict the changes in state. The only physics answer I suspect is circular, which is not a bad thing. We use energy to predict changes in state or relational states, and energy is defined essentially as a predictor of changes in state. (More or less that's my overly crude summary of what physicists can say about causes.) The physicist is merely a tinkerer who tries to nudge the mathematical relationships to get the predictions conforming closer to observed reality. Seems like kind of a let down huh? But it needn't be viewed that way, just look at the triumphs of technology and blisteringly beautiful mathematics that such endeavours have spawned. To seek anything more from physics is probably akin to a god-delusion or god-complex, where
physics is god. I for one don't want to go there.
You might as well just say that the machine masters that run our universe are the cause of these relationships and laws that we uncover. I think physics can only uncover the relationships, it cannot say much about ultimate causes. Whether you've agreed that energy is an abstraction or not, this I think is nearly the end of the road for a physics forum on the topic. While I admire the desire to want to know the ultimate causes of things, as a physicist I think one has to ultimately settle for a mathematical description. That needn't forbid philosophers from wondering about why the description must be such as the physicists discover. But it's a different game. Not a bad one, but different.
Here's another spanner in the works: who said causes must exist? If we live in a Multiverse of the type outline by Tegmark and others, then it is dumb blind luck that the laws and rules physicists uncover continue to be stable and seem to be consistent. There is no cause of things in a Multiverse, only patterns that can be treated by sentient beings observing them as causal. In a true Multiverse this is a delusion. I myself do not subscribe to such metaphysics, but I would find it hard, maybe impossible, to deny Tegmark his suppositions. Maybe he is right. I can't disprove his grand theory. My only pointer being that physics is on a very tenuous ground when it attempts to pronounce that there are known causes of phenomena. The sagacious physicists would probably prefer to just say, "this here <insert formalisms> is how I define energy, these are it's implications <insert consequences> and the causes of these relationships are metaphysical, not scientifically accessible."
I know that sounds like giving up, but it is not. It is merely demarcating the boundaries of what we scope out as "physics", separate from metaphysics and philosophy & ontology.
Could I just add: I think a lot of people get this confusion about physics. They look to physics for ultimate answers, which is a sort of conceit or prejudice of our modern enlightened scientific age, which has achieved so much for us technologically, but in real terms has done nothing to explain the "why" of the universe in anything other than purey abstract mathematical-relational terms.
Looking to physics for
knowledge about ultimate causes is I think a fine pursuit and one that humanity should pursue. Indeed, this is one of the greatest things about physics---it reveals to us knowledge about causal structures, or at least the apparent causal patterns. But thinking that physics will provide the actual answer to the ontological questions of "what the causes are" is naive and I think a fore-doomed quest. And dare I use another analogy (only for helping colour my argument you understand!): imagine the inside of the proverbial elephant is an eternal black hole, so we cannot ever observe it's internal structure, but we can see it's outer form, which looks just like an elephant. Physics (the human scientific enterprise) stands kinda' in relation to our universe like an external observer trying to understand what makes the elephant tick, where the elephant is the universe, its' skin and air and tusks are what we can observe, and we are some sort of insects or bacteria living in it's skin desperately trying to understand it's behaviour and innermost laws.
Sorry if this poor poetic analogy doesn't satisfy ya. I'm doin' my best. you'll have to interpret further for yourself and maybe ask for more clarification about what I'm trying to say...unless you think I'm nuts---in which case ignore my ramblings.